Tonal Question

Discussion in 'Gretsch-Talk Music' started by Bertotti, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I have a sound in my head that doesn't fit into A400hz, I think. It also isn't quite a sitar tone, rather somewhere in-between. I am uncertain how to get there. Maybe tuning sharp or detuning a bit? Or perhaps I need to explore a different frequency other than A440? Any thoughts are welcome. I wish I could describe it better but not being able to find it myself just an inkling in my head the best I can do is say somewhere between guitar and sitar. Perhaps maybe like a mandolin but more towards sitar as well. Thanks, I may just have to start experimenting more.
     
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  2. loudnlousy

    loudnlousy Gretschified

    Age:
    55
    Oct 18, 2015
    Germany
    In my youth there wasn`t something like a proper guitar-tuner-pedal. We used t o tune by ear to each other and I really liked how my guitar sounded at some rehearsals without knowing exactly why.
    For my kind of music a full-step dropped down tuning sounded so much more heavy. Man. Incredible. I only noticed decads later after I develloped my very personal pitch-hearing.
    I am very biased on 440 HZ for an A over the years and I really feel irritated when something is outside this bias.
    During that time I always found the tuning on Kiss records annoying because it obviously was not 440 HZ (significantly above).
    I was not aware of that but it grew on me many years later.
    So whatever seems to be your personal comfort zone in tuning: It is totally o.k. as ong as your fellow musicians will share that. Being in two universes will hurt the ear.
    There is a very interesting read from Tony Beacon. He wrote that Bob Marley asked Roger Mayer to make his band sound more "international". Roger`s solution was to make them play all in correct tuning.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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  3. loudnlousy

    loudnlousy Gretschified

    Age:
    55
    Oct 18, 2015
    Germany
    The thing about sitar tones is not so much the tuning but the sympathetic drones ofother strings resonating and the snarl of the main sting , though.
    Is this that what you mean?
     
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  4. Henry

    Henry I Bleed Orange

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    Can you get a tone generator app?
     
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  5. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    Hmmm, I have one and several synths and keyboards. I think I see where you are going. I will try a synth and see if I can isolate the tone. I am curious about the sympathetic strings though that @loudnlousy talks about, that could be a big part of it.
     
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  6. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Country Gent

    May 20, 2016
    QLD Australia
    Hey guys, we'll have to be careful.

    This thread is starting to sound like real musicians talking.:eek::D;)
     
  7. audept

    audept Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Age:
    73
    Dec 1, 2010
    Sydney, Australia
    Nah, he used the word "sympathetic"........:p
     
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  8. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    Are you thinking some sort of Microtonality?
     
  9. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I sure hope not but it might be.
     
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  10. Highroller

    Highroller Country Gent

    Jun 11, 2015
    Portland, OR
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  11. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    There are no rules when it comes to tuning. To me staying in A440 is very limiting.
    Drop the pitch down, raise the pitch up and it opens a whole new world of tonal possibilities.
    It's a great tool for song writers in the same way as using a capo or open tunings.
    Using the same pitch year after year is boring. Just look how The Beatles used vary pitch on the tape machines and achieved some really interesting sounds. All those micro changes in pitch can give a song a unique sound. I have been doing it for years - it's fun and refreshing...:D.
     
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  12. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    Is it something you could find in a Pitchshifter pedal or maybe the EHX POG, HOG or Ravish Sitar?
     
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  13. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I think I found what I'm looking for but I'm not sure how I will get it on a guitar. On the Kronos I have a piano I created with two of the strings in the group detuned or a few cents sharp, which gives it that old bar dissonance with the weird overtones. On the guitar it would be played up the neck for the pitch I want but how to get the extra stings chorus but a bit sharp. I am looking at the Spectrum pedal to see what I can manage with it.

    @Henry thanks for the idea of where to look. @Ricochet for the pedal idea. and @ everyone else for the great comments! Thanks again. I'm just glad it isn't a microtonal thing. I am not prepared to go there.
     
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  14. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    A harmonizing pedal or plugin can do that. I use an Eventide Eclipse stereo patch where I can detune a few cents flat on the left side and a few cents sharp on the right side. The original pitch stays the same and when blended you get that slight tuning variation like you get on an old piano when the three strings on a note are slightly out of tune. The degree of pitch variation will change the sound greatly. So you have to try different settings but it's really cool. I use that effect on lead vocals a lot to fatten up a track. A little bit goes a long way.
     
  15. Back in Black

    Back in Black Synchromatic

    Age:
    72
    849
    Jun 22, 2020
    Ontario Canada
    Hey Bertotti,

    Go on Danelectro's web site, and look at the Baby Sitar, and the Sitar which is fitted with sympathetic strings.

    In both cases you are able to sample the sounds of the instruments.

    Hopefully that sound in your head is there.

    Both of these instruments are very inexpensive, $599./$699. respectively.

    Hope you find what you're looking for.

    Best,

    BIB.

    DAN SITAR ONE.png DAN SITAR 2.png
     
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  16. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    I'd like to hear the tone if you can record it. I'm curious what it is.

    One of the things that can cause a sitar tone is actually undesirable - a bad nut slot or saddle slot.
     
  17. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I will see what I can do.
     
  18. loudnlousy

    loudnlousy Gretschified

    Age:
    55
    Oct 18, 2015
    Germany
    [​IMG]
    I have not seen this crackle-design since ages! :eek::eek:
     
  19. Wavey

    Wavey Electromatic

    69
    Dec 31, 2016
    NorCal
    The Ventures used one of these (or one like it) on Kyoto Doll and their version of Paint It Black. Here's Gerry McGee from 1993:

    upload_2021-4-9_9-11-14.png

    and Nokie from 2004:

    upload_2021-4-9_9-14-52.png
     
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