Thanks to Julian Lage, I now want the Gretsch Player's Edition DS

Discussion in 'THE Gretsch Discussion Forum' started by golem, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. golem

    golem Electromatic

    8
    Jan 3, 2021
    USA
    The release of the Collings 470JL got me thinking about whether there's a Player's Edition closer to my 6228 (I prefer the ergonomics). Today, someone pointed out that there is:



    I'm the type of person to wait for a good deal on one used, but this one will be in the back of my mind.
     
  2. Chet Harrison

    Chet Harrison Electromatic

    31
    Apr 27, 2020
    Brooklyn NY
    ::drool::

    I want one, but I also want to try out the ‘53 Duo Jet VS.
     
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  3. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    Well, keep in mine, the Collings is more like the Gretsch Vintage Select- it has a floating wood bridge instead of the metal stud bridge. That makes for a change in tone and sustain....

    Yes, this is the one likely closest to that Collings.

    Personally, I want the Collings... I love the yellow finish on that one... but if Gretsch put out as VS that was RED SPARKLE... that would probably do it for me...
     
  4. Chet Harrison

    Chet Harrison Electromatic

    31
    Apr 27, 2020
    Brooklyn NY
    The bridge on the Collings is pinned. Not sure how much of a difference it makes tonally. Maybe the top doesn’t vibrate quite as much?
     
  5. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    Pinned is still a floating bridge. It's not SCREWED to the top, like the metal stud bridge is. And the wood bridge base definitely gives a tonal change compared to metal studs screwed to the guitar.
     
  6. Chmason85

    Chmason85 Synchromatic

    581
    May 1, 2018
    Philadelphia
    I would imagine the tension bar and bridge screwed right in will give a punchier more direct tone, I’m all for it
     
  7. golem

    golem Electromatic

    8
    Jan 3, 2021
    USA
    @ruger9 Yes, I'm definitely looking for something more like the 6228 and less like the Collings or Vintage Select. I prefer the changes made for the recent player's edition models.
     
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  8. Chet Harrison

    Chet Harrison Electromatic

    31
    Apr 27, 2020
    Brooklyn NY
    Thanks for the reply. I wasn’t quite clear on the concept. For some reason I assumed it involved “sound posts” between the top and the back to secure the bridge into. Of course I also temporarily forgot we were talking about a chambered guitar and not a 6120 or whatever.
     
  9. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    I saw the other post about the Collings 470JL somehow being comparable to a Duo Jet and got interested.

    The Collings 470JL has Ron Ellis Ellis sonic pickups.
    And I can't find any info on what they are - appear to be some kind of single coils from the pics.
    Are they any good - who knows.

    So the 470JL costs $6,600, has a similar shape to an LP or Jet, is semi-hollow, has ebony fretboard and a bigsby.
    Similarities to a Jet appear to end there.

    And unless the unknown Ellis sonic pups are a very good filtertron clone of TV Jones Classics it won't sound anything like my Jet 6131.

    Would you guys really consider paying $6,000 for a guitar you've never played ?
     
  10. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    The Ellisonic pickups are Dynasonic clones. Some Jets have Dearmonds/Dynasonics, not Filtertrons.
    $6600 wouldn't be out of line for a Custom shop Gretsch Jet... and that's the level we're at here with Collings: custom shop, Collings is a smaller boutique builder.

    This 470JL was no doubt "inspired by" (and likely copied from, to some degree), the '53 Duo Jet Lage has been playing for several years now.
     
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  11. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    Yes I know Dynasonics well.
    I looked and couldn't find any info on these Ellis pups.

    And have you heard/played these Ellis clones ?
    Best Dyna's I've heard are the TV Jones T-Armonds.

    The Gretsch Custom Shop guitars are no better quality than a stock proline series Gretsch imo.
    Same with the PE models.
    They just have a few different features people may, or may not, prefer for $2000 more.

    That 470JL looks no better in pics and video than a stock proline Duo Jet.
    It may be better but unless you'd played one yourself you'd have no way of knowing :D
     
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  12. Chmason85

    Chmason85 Synchromatic

    581
    May 1, 2018
    Philadelphia
    I dreamt up my dream custom shop Gretsch this past week, I bet even my spec would be cheaper than the collings
     
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  13. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    Nor do you, looking at "pics" :D

    Have you played a CS Gretsch? I have, a few actually. I haven't played a Collings.
     
  14. GOOBALL JEFF

    GOOBALL JEFF Synchromatic

    528
    Oct 1, 2019
    london
    yeah i love em, sand or ivory though? i just can't decide which is nicer, i would like the tort guard on the ivory. i want a tele sound with gretsch looks, could this be my dream guitar?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  15. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    The 470 JL is a full hollowbody guitar (not chambered) like a Guild Aristocrat but with a unique kind of trestle bracing.
    Ron Ellis pickups are top notch.
    Those are Dynasonic-types.
     
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  16. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    ok - has anybody tested these Ellis sonic pups ? - and not on youtube :eek:
    There's no info on them anywhere I can find :)
     
  17. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    Yes fair enough I have not played a Gretsch CS and I'm going by pics and reports from people who have.
    I have played PE's and didn't find them any better than stock pro-lines and I preferred the features on the pro-lines myself.

    So if you've played a few what's your report on Gretsch Custom Shop.
    Are they another $1-2000 better than a stock pro-line in terms of looks, build quality and tone?
     
  18. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    Afaik they‘re not available so far. Ron Ellis pkups are really expensive and you need a lot of patience if you want them.
    His Telecaster pkups are legend. You‘ll find them in Nachocasters and of course Julian Lage is a big fan.
     
  19. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    You're asking the wrong guy, simply because I don't have the cash for those types of instruments. But yes- while the Proline Grestches are great, the CS instruments most definitely have an attention to detail to Prolines don't. A Porsche is great, but a Lamborghini.... you get the idea lol.

    ALSO- you're asking the wrong guy, because "worth the extra" really doesn't apply for me... I can take a MIM strat and play it just as good as I can play ANYTHING. CS doesn't make an instrument necessarily play or sound any better. A good setup on a Squier is all Jack Pearson needs to kick everybody's butt.

    So, now considering that- we are talking art here. I want a DGT. $4k is steep. I do want it for it's functionality, but I also fell in love with the black gold finish PRS does... is it worth the extra cash? As art, to some people, yes. The Collings vs Gretsch is a little different... as Stefan said, they ARE constructed differently. Even the Vintage Select Gretsch, which is closer to the Collings. The Collings is alot more hollow.

    NOW.... will that translate through an amp? Maybe. Will it continue translating through a house PA? Probably not, when compared to a vintage select. So where DOES the "extra money for extra stuff" matter? In the player's hands. It is entirely possible that the $6600 Collings plays no better than a Proline 53 Jet, when setup properly. It's also possible the Collings won't sound any "better". But if the player JUST LOVES the guitar, there's more to that than a setup. Who's to say why a guitar speaks to us? As tools, a Squier is all you NEED. Beyond that, it's all fair game, and art, and relative to what matters TO YOU.

    If I had just won that billion dollar Mega Millions jackpot, I would have already placed my order for the Collings 470JL. AND for the new IC-35LC Vintage. Because we are moving from the TOOL world into the art and craftsmanship world.
     
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  20. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    Yes I hear and agree with all you say :D

    Issues I was mainly raising are ......

    - why would people pay over $6000 for a Collings they'd never seen and never heard with new pups they know nothing about - no specs. The Ellis Sonics could be either great or duds.
    They could sound just like T-Armonds or sound like noisy Fender style single coils like most of the attempted Dyna copies do.

    - And Gretsch Custom shop and PE's. I can't see how they could sound any better than a stock proline. The 4 PE's I've played did not sound any better. Maybe there's a very slight improvement in finish quality in the CS but mainly they just have a few different features than stock models. Not any better, just a little different :)
     
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