String Guage Thoughts …

[tolm]

I’ve had my G6128T-1962 double-cut pro-line Duo Jet for a few years now. Coming from the other G-brand (for the most part) with the occasional F-brand, I was used to 10s on 24.75” scale guitars and either 9s or 10s on 25.5” a scale.

One of the first things I did was put some 11s on the Gretsch as the strings it came with felt really slinky on the slightly shorter 24.6” scale. TBH, I was surprised how different it felt to the other 24.75” guitars I had given such a small difference in scale length.

Anyway, been running the 11s forever … and I like how they feel … but I’ve also been through pick-up swaps, pot swaps, rewires, etc trying to get a “brighter” sound as the guitar has always seemed very mid-focused / dark. Not to say it sounds bad - far from it - just not as bright and twangy a “Gretsch Sound” as I was expecting.

For the most part, switching to TV Jones Classics got me there. But there is still an overall “fuzzy” feel to the tone of the guitar when overdriven such that it’s never quite sat comfortably as my #1 guitar, even though it’s playability and feel is very much my favourite.

In an unrelated move, I wound up buying a RF White Falcon which instantly became my #1 giggling guitar … but it would still be nice to get the Duo Jet that last 10% needed such that it could do the job just as well.

Clearly these are very different guitars but that long rambling brings me to the question to which some of you may already be thinking, “well, duh” … could the 11s be making the Duo Jet sound darker? Would changing back to 10s brighten / balance the sound?

Obviously I can just change ‘em and see but, before I do, I’m intrigued to find out what others experiences have been: has anyone had similar tonal changes between 10s / 11s or specifically the G6128T-1962 model?

Cheers!

 

[Emergence]

Chasing tone. I've ben doing it for what seems like forever. Now my tone isn't your tone, nor is it anybody else's, but I can say that strings make a difference. I use the same strings on all of my electrics these days; G, the other G, and F are all strung with 10-46 nickel wound with a wound third string. It's the wound third string that tames the too loud and excessively bright third string. The chase also included Ray Butts pickups on my 6118T Anniversary. They each sound better on their own than the HS Filter'Trons they replaced and sound amazing combined. But the most dramatic change came with the Compton chambered titanium bridge. Truth be told, the bridge cost quite a few years worth of strings but it's given the guitar the high order harmonics that twang and focused mids that just didn't shimmer before the change. I'd try string changes first but a string change will make a small improvement at best compared with a chambered titanium bridge. Thinking back on the process, I don't think that changing only the strings, pickups, or bridge alone would have brought my guitar to where it needs to be. That's amazing and fortuitous synergy.

 

[tolm]

Chasing tone. I've ben doing it for what seems like forever. Now my tone isn't your tone, nor is it anybody else's, but I can say that strings make a difference. I use the same strings on all of my electrics these days; G, the other G, and F are all strung with 10-46 nickel wound with a wound third string. It's the wound third string that tames the too loud and excessively bright third string. The chase also included Ray Butts pickups on my 6118T Anniversary. They each sound better on their own than the HS Filter'Trons they replaced and sound amazing combined. But the most dramatic change came with the Compton chambered titanium bridge. Truth be told, the bridge cost quite a few years worth of strings but it's given the guitar the high order harmonics that twang and focused mids that just didn't shimmer before the change. I'd try string changes first but a string change will make a small improvement at best compared with a chambered titanium bridge. Thinking back on the process, I don't think that changing only the strings, pickups, or bridge alone would have brought my guitar to where it needs to be. That's amazing and fortuitous synergy.

Thanks - that’s very interesting! My Falcon has a roller-TOM style bridge whereas the Duo Jet has the Gretsch “space control” bridge.

I had an older Duo Jet (single cut) that had a Compton bridge … many’s the time I regret not putting the original bridge back on when I sold it as it was very nice. So that may be worth looking into if I can find a reputable source in the UK.

 

[Synchro]

For years, I was an advocate of heavy strings, but slowly I’ve gravitated towards lighter string sets. I don’t hear much, if any, difference in timbre, when I use lighter strings. For my short-scale Gretsch guitars, and my Telecasters, I use sets the use a .047 or .046 on the low E, basically the lower three associated with 10s. So on the three Gretsch, I use 10, 13, & 17 on the top three, but on two of the Teles, I use 9, 11, 16 up top, and on my Custom Telecaster FMT HH, I use Thomastik Jazz Swings (47, 35, 25) on the bottom and plain 8, 10, 15 up top. This last guitar is exceptionally slinky, and sounds great.

There is a story about BB King trading guitars with someone, perhaps Billy Gibbons, before a show, and commenting that having heavy strings amounted to a lot of unnecessary work. As it turns out, BB used some pretty light strings, allegedly 8s, and apparently Gibbons took the advice to heart. I could be remembering wrong about who the other player was, but I’m certain that BB King was the person advocating for very light-gauge strings.

Of course, this assumes that the guitar‘s setup is compatible with light strings. So far, I haven’t had any problems using fairly light strings on any of my guitars, without any problems. YMMV.

 

[Emergence]

Thanks - that’s very interesting! My Falcon has a roller-TOM style bridge whereas the Duo Jet has the Gretsch “space control” bridge.

I had an older Duo Jet (single cut) that had a Compton bridge … many’s the time I regret not putting the original bridge back on when I sold it as it was very nice. So that may be worth looking into if I can find a reputable source in the UK.

The space control bridge on my Annie was what was sucking tone. A Compton chambered titanium bridge will make your Duo Jet come alive.

 

[Romeozdistress]

I do 10-50 with a .18 wound g. String joy does custom sets too, worth a look.

 

[tolm]

The space control bridge on my Annie was what was sucking tone. A Compton chambered titanium bridge will make your Duo Jet come alive.

Okay ... I decided to try something ...

Had a cheapo TOM lying around ... was the right size for the Duo Jet so fitted it whilst keeping the same strings so as not to get a false comparison. Tuned back up and ... brighter. Definitely brighter! Unfortunately the low-E wouldn't stay in the saddle ...

So I took the bridge off my Falcon - it's whatever roller-TOM came as standard on it - and popped that on my Duo Jet. Despite being a roller-bridge, it still retained the brightness. It's subtle - my Duo Jet doesn't suddenly sound like a different guitar - but the low strings in particular sound far less muddy.

In fact - it sounds so good, I've left it on!

Which brings us back to the Falcon ... for the time being I've put the Space Control bridge on there. Initially this was just for comparison and it has definitely "dulled" the guitar a little. I think the pickups, no-load tone control, maple construction and 25.5" scale are helping retain some of the top end - just as on the Duo Jet previously - the low-E and A strings have become a little muddy sounding if you pile the gain on and chug out some power chords. But it hasn't developed the "fuzzy under overdrive" tone that the Duo Jet had when fitted with this bridge. How weird?! Previously on some numbers I would find the Falcon almost too bright and knock the tone back a little ... so it's possible the bridge "taking the edge off" won't be an issue on this guitar.

My original plan when I bought the Falcon was to use it for songs that require low-to-mid-gain, open chords, riffs, arpeggios, etc and then switch to the Duo Jet for chugging out power-chords on the heavier numbers. Previously the Duo Jet didn't have the clarity in the lower strings to do that so I wound up using the Falcon for, basically, everything. But now the Duo Jet does that great. And the Falcon still does all the other things great!

I may yet just order a couple of Compton's if I can find somewhere that sells them over here that isn't a dodgy looking eBay store! Or maybe put a custom order in for a pair of the "tone chambered" titanium version. I do worry slightly about getting the post/string spacing wrong and not being able to return them, though!

But, for the time being, I'm gonna take my two Gretsch's along to next rehearsal with their newly swapped bridges and see how they sound with the band!!

 

[tolm]

Okay, so we’re well off the string gauge topic and into bridges now but, anyhoo … can’t find anywhere here in the UK that has Compton bridges available. Nor many other options, for that matter. A few places on eBay with the Bigsby bridges but those seem to have an “unhelpful” pole spacing.

Are the standard Gretsch bar bridges any good? Looks like I can order those from Thomann in Germany.

 

[Synchro]

I have a Gretsch bar bridge on one of my guitars, no problems.

 

[tolm]

I have a Gretsch bar bridge on one of my guitars, no problems.

Out of interest - do you have a Bigsby on it? One of the things I’m keen to avoid is issues with strings coming out of bridge slots!

 

[Synchro]

Out of interest - do you have a Bigsby on it? One of the things I’m keen to avoid is issues with strings coming out of bridge slots!

Indeed I do. No problems, whatsoever.

 

[tolm]

Indeed I do. No problems, whatsoever.

Awesome - cheers!

I’m gonna sit on the guitars “as is” for a few days (next band rehearsal is Weds) but I like the idea of getting a couple of matching bar bridges as, being an official Gretsch part, they should just drop on.

 

[oneforsorrow]

I found that when I switched from an 11-50 with a wound 3rd set to a 10-48 with a plain 3rd AND switched from a Space Control bridge to a brass Serpentune, the wooliness disappeared on my 6196T.

Again, check out Curt Mangan strings.

 

[Maguchi]

I’ve had my G6128T-1962 double-cut pro-line Duo Jet for a few years now. Coming from the other G-brand (for the most part) with the occasional F-brand, I was used to 10s on 24.75” scale guitars and either 9s or 10s on 25.5” a scale.

One of the first things I did was put some 11s on the Gretsch as the strings it came with felt really slinky on the slightly shorter 24.6” scale. TBH, I was surprised how different it felt to the other 24.75” guitars I had given such a small difference in scale length.

Anyway, been running the 11s forever … and I like how they feel … but I’ve also been through pick-up swaps, pot swaps, rewires, etc trying to get a “brighter” sound as the guitar has always seemed very mid-focused / dark. Not to say it sounds bad - far from it - just not as bright and twangy a “Gretsch Sound” as I was expecting.

For the most part, switching to TV Jones Classics got me there. But there is still an overall “fuzzy” feel to the tone of the guitar when overdriven such that it’s never quite sat comfortably as my #1 guitar, even though it’s playability and feel is very much my favourite.

In an unrelated move, I wound up buying a RF White Falcon which instantly became my #1 giggling guitar … but it would still be nice to get the Duo Jet that last 10% needed such that it could do the job just as well.

Clearly these are very different guitars but that long rambling brings me to the question to which some of you may already be thinking, “well, duh” … could the 11s be making the Duo Jet sound darker? Would changing back to 10s brighten / balance the sound?

Obviously I can just change ‘em and see but, before I do, I’m intrigued to find out what others experiences have been: has anyone had similar tonal changes between 10s / 11s or specifically the G6128T-1962 model?

Cheers!

You mentioned Duo Jet and White Falcon. I had a Duo Jet awhile ago and always used 10-46 with a plain G and that seemed to work great with a (chambered) solidbody. Right now I've got a couple a Gretsch hollowbodies, a 6119 and a 6120. With those 2 guitars 11-49s with a plain G works better. They're 24.6" scale, but I think with a hollowbody construction the guitar seems to like 11s better to drive the top. So my 2 cents, try some 10-46s on your Duo Jet and some 11-49s on your White Falcon.

 

[tolm]

You mentioned Duo Jet and White Falcon. I had a Duo Jet awhile ago and always used 10-46 with a plain G and that seemed to work great with a (chambered) solidbody. Right now I've got a couple a Gretsch hollowbodies, a 6119 and a 6120. With those 2 guitars 11-49s with a plain G works better. They're 24.6" scale, but I think with a hollowbody construction the guitar seems to like 11s better to drive the top. So my 2 cents, try some 10-46s on your Duo Jet and some 11-49s on your White Falcon.

The Falcon is 25.5” scale … not sure I’m ready for 11s on that!!