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MrWookiee

Country Gent
Jun 17, 2020
1,302
SoCal, USA
I can't help but think the music resulting from the method described in the OP is "antiseptic" at best. Sort of like when CDs first replaced LPs - no hisses, pops, rumble, or skips meant "no soul" for a while.
It reminds me of a story I heard that when jazz pianist Earl "Fatha" Hines was purportedly asked in the 1950s or '60s, "How do you like the new electrified music?" he replied, "How do you like frozen food?"
 

Jelly Roll Horton

Country Gent
Nov 10, 2017
1,886
Portland, OR
Midway in my career as a graphic designer the entire field embraced the digital environment. No more mechanicals, no more speccing type, no more airbrushing photos. It was a struggle to learn the new everything and buy the software and computers, but eventually the benefits became apparent, and actually enhanced creative ideas. I suspect we are seeing the same thing with music and art. I won’t adopt in-ear or any of the other changes described in the OP, because I don’t have to, and because more than half of the enjoyment I get from music is trying to understand the amps, pedals, and guitars, and how to put them together with music I want to play. Plus, just physically grokking the beauty of my guitar is a joy to my spirit. But every generation has their creative influences, and that seems right to me.

"Come mothers and fathers, throughout the land, and don’t criticize what you can’t understand.” ~Dylan, The Times They Are A-Changing
 
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Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,447
Tucson
I know plenty of musicians who are totally lost without that page full of dots in front of them.
There’s an old joke that if you want to shut up a guitarist, out some sheet music in front of him, and if you want to shut up a pianist, take their sheet music away. :)

My “internal songbook” is basically comprised of Tone Centers and the chords by number. So Satin Doll would be a pair of II, V turnarounds in C Maj, followed by a pair of II, V turnarounds in D Maj followed by a II, V in G Maj, a II, V in F# Maj, (which is a b5 substitution for a II, V in C Maj) and then it resolves to the I of C Maj. That may sound complex, but it’s actually very easy to remember, because the logic of the composition is all that I’m remembering.

It’s along the lines of the Nashville Number System, and the beauty is that it’s easy to apply these turnarounds into ear training, so learning new songs becomes a lot easier. When viewed like this, the commonality between songs becomes obvious, and the differences in song details stand out on sharp relief.
 

tmcq65

Gretschie
Nov 10, 2021
127
Eastern Tennessee
This reminds me of a story a colleague and jazz band conductor related years ago....there was some particular recording that he admired for having a degree of "layed back" swing that he was trying to emulate. He eventually put a metronome on, and discovered that the tempo actually did slow slightly as the piece progressed.
Sometimes what sounds best is not what is technically perfect.
 

Jelly Roll Horton

Country Gent
Nov 10, 2017
1,886
Portland, OR
If we’re gonna talk vintage cars, I just have to show mine. I like old stuff, and at 93 years my cars are almost out if date and obsolete. But at 77 so am I. I still drive them, though.
 

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Scott Fraser

Country Gent
Jan 14, 2012
1,615
Los Angeles
I can't help but think the music resulting from the method described in the OP is "antiseptic" at best. Sort of like when CDs first replaced LPs - no hisses, pops, rumble, or skips meant "no soul" for a while.
Maybe it meant no soul for some, but for me, as a recording engineer accustomed to hearing my mixes damaged by the loss of separation, greatly increased intermodulation & harmonic distortion, softening of transients, diminished low end, & high level of surface noise attending the conversion process to vinyl, I welcomed CD as finally allowing the listener to hear what I heard in the studio. That didn't affect the soul of the recording at all for me, it actually allowed the soul to be heard.
 

TV the Wired Turtle

Gretschified
Jul 25, 2009
14,440
Sandy Eggo
I
Damn, that sounds awful. And I would want to strangle that guy who keeps going 1-2-3-4. Doesn't he know I wrote the damn song? I know how it goes!

Doesnt matter if you know how it goes. Do you play with tracks? do you play in an arena with tracks? Do you play with tracks in arenas and you are spaced so far apart from your bandmates that you couldnt hear the drummer over the giant ass wall of amps you have, some with extra guitar tracks blasting through them? I'm gonna solidly guess the answer is no. humbly... :) And this is why these musicians have automated music direction with their IEM, so they deliver a solid performance, remaining in the song and never getting lost in the soup of additional beats, pads, etc besides the worlds worst acoustics and racquetball court like reflections x10. :)

My own band that was tighter than a diamond in the arse of a gorilla, completely fell apart when we had to play in a vintage wood and brick high school gymnasium. It was as if my drummer was playing on the ceiling and the floor at the same time while throwing pots and pans down a stairwell in a car park.. Ya try to find the 1 :) :) After that we made him play to a click track and called him N.E.D. "necessary electronic drummer"
 

juks

Country Gent
Nov 26, 2020
2,062
Fremont, California
I


Doesnt matter if you know how it goes. Do you play with tracks? do you play in an arena with tracks? Do you play with tracks in arenas and you are spaced so far apart from your bandmates that you couldnt hear the drummer over the giant ass wall of amps you have, some with extra guitar tracks blasting through them? I'm gonna solidly guess the answer is no. humbly... :) And this is why these musicians have automated music direction with their IEM, so they deliver a solid performance, remaining in the song and never getting lost in the soup of additional beats, pads, etc besides the worlds worst acoustics and racquetball court like reflections x10. :)

My own band that was tighter than a diamond in the arse of a gorilla, completely fell apart when we had to play in a vintage wood and brick high school gymnasium. It was as if my drummer was playing on the ceiling and the floor at the same time while throwing pots and pans down a stairwell in a car park.. Ya try to find the 1 :) :) After that we made him play to a click track and called him N.E.D. "necessary electronic drummer"

Largest gigs I've played were 3000+ people. So that's far from arenas.

I am doubting you couldn't do it with monitors even on stadiums. I can see in ears being easier and you can have the annoying dude counting you into every change in the song. But I would hate playing like that. Not that it matters as I'm not playing live anymore on any level.

Just me.
 

gtttrrr

Country Gent
Dec 7, 2011
2,096
United States
I find it ironic that some people here believe that (old school) technology is necessary for soul.

Soul comes from inside, not whether your gear is analog or digitial, tube or solid state.

Many writers write their music alone, it doesn't make the music any less.

One thing that hasn't changed is that we still like to judge people who are different from us.
Truth, we are all different animals, all dig different stuff, for sure. There’s a place for all of it, IMHO
 

loudnlousy

Gretschified
Oct 18, 2015
12,167
Germany
@Synchro
@Henry
@Scott Fraser
@Jelly Roll Horton
@NJDevil

Don`t get me wrong. I really appreciate the level of skill this young man has worked himself up to.
And I never said that that kind of music is soulless.
(Working with a clicktrack in a recording session is something I did a hundred times. But only hearing me and a click in a live situation felt utterly strange to me.)
What I found worth telling is, the obvious leap of technology that happened in the last few years is completely accepted by the younger musicians whereas I obviously have my comfort-zone in the stoneage of gear and making music with others.
 
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TV the Wired Turtle

Gretschified
Jul 25, 2009
14,440
Sandy Eggo
Largest gigs I've played were 3000+ people. So that's far from arenas.

I am doubting you couldn't do it with monitors even on stadiums. I can see in ears being easier and you can have the annoying dude counting you into every change in the song. But I would hate playing like that. Not that it matters as I'm not playing live anymore on any level.

Just me.
for the longest time I fought having my wedge, but I was always fighting to hear enough over the damn drums. With in ear, I dont have to blast my voice into the mic, its now almost as easy as talking. Not to mention being able to keep pitch at a premium. Now, when I am forced to play without an actual amplifier on stage, then I'm throwin blows :)
 

Bertotti

Friend of Fred
Jul 20, 2017
9,101
South Dakota
I dont regret it because in less than 10yrs those cars will not legally be allowed to operate on US highways. I had a 600 cfm edelbrock 4 barrel on that 322 nailhead w straight pipes. :)

ps. yes I miss it, but the oil pan was 3"off the tarmack and only the lake pipes kept it from ripping out the drain plug. it was fully slammed and while the roads were pretty nice in Riverside, down here by the beach in San Diego the roads are crap and parking is hard enough for my Ford Flex. btw.. Seeing this pic brings tears to my eyes. It wasnt so long ago. Just this
week I helped that little guy (whos now taller than me) get a glasspack put on his Chevy Trailblazer :)

View attachment 179370
Keep your eyes on the news because in ten years there will be reports of some crazed red neck ina giant gas burning hot rod being chased by hundreds of highway patrol and federal agents because he is breaking the law burning gas flying along at 180mph! I promise I’ll wave at the camera tue international sign of I don’t care about these stinking laws! Hahahahahaha
 

Dice

Electromatic
Mar 5, 2022
51
Victoria, Texas
Seems like another example of taking interaction out of relationships. Our final Hoo-Rah before the shutdown of COVID in 2020 was a St. Patrick’s Day party with friends on our back porch. We live out, so we can make racket of many styles. We had a blast playing music totally unrehearsed, though three of us play together at church. One attendee commented that we kept bringing out all these different instruments, and it was true. I pondered on this many times during the days of isolation from others. I think there’s very few things more socially interactive than playing music with others.
 

TV the Wired Turtle

Gretschified
Jul 25, 2009
14,440
Sandy Eggo
Keep your eyes on the news because in ten years there will be reports of some crazed red neck ina giant gas burning hot rod being chased by hundreds of highway patrol and federal agents because he is breaking the law burning gas flying along at 180mph! I promise I’ll wave at the camera tue international sign of I don’t care about these stinking laws! Hahahahahaha
I can see it now

maxresdefault.jpg
 

BuddyHollywood

Gretschie
Sep 11, 2009
445
Venice, CA
I prefer playing shows live but I don't mind playing along to tracks either if it's required. I wouldn't want just my part and a click in my mix though. I would love to hear a bit of everyone just as a reference. Whenever I have played drums to tracks live I was still able to hear everyone else either from stage volume on in my monitor. I was the only person hearing the click.
 


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