Out of Phase education

Discussion in 'The Pickup Place' started by j.s.c, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. j.s.c

    j.s.c Country Gent

    Aug 19, 2008
    france
    Hey GT people,

    I'm asking myself many question about the out of phase sound (which is of course both pickup in reverse windings or phase (?)). Ok... that's a lot of confusion to me.

    - Is it the same for single coils and humbuckers ?
    - Is there different solutions for the out of phase : reverse the lead and ground connection is ok, but it the same to have normal soldering connection but reverse the whole pickup caster North/South, I know that some reverse only the magnet from side to side all the others stay exactly the same.

    -On many pickups the outofphase but the pickup cover and pole piece in circuit, so if you touch you ground ! Is there a solution to manage this issue. For instance, I have a set of P13 with all metal cover, if I open the pickup and put a 3 wires (one and two to the bobbins terminals and a third one to the ground) is there a reliable solution ?

    Thanks for education and all others food on phase !
     
  2. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Two solutions usually - flip magnets or reverse wiring.

    Here are some links. I'm not that up on this subject, but you're making me study it! I know that when I was wiring up my Strat, I tried two different hook ups and like one best. I think a lot of Strat sets are intentionally wired out of phase and reverse wound in purpose.



    https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/pickup-polarity-and-phase-made-simple

    https://www.fralinpickups.com/2020/04/10/how-to-reverse-pickup-phase/


    Looking forward to some more informed replies...!
     
    chicago slim likes this.
  3. tartanphantom

    tartanphantom Friend of Fred

    Age:
    57
    Jul 30, 2008
    Murfreesboro, TN
    There is a distinct difference between being magnetically out of phase and being electrically out of phase. They are not the same thing, and do not produce the same tonal results. This is further complicated when multiple pickups are involved.

    A phase switch changes the electrical phasing, but does not alter the magnetic phasing of the existing pickups.
     
    Ricochet and wabash slim like this.
  4. Alanqa

    Alanqa Gretschie

    351
    Aug 22, 2019
    Lancashire UK
    Basically if you plan to wire a pickup out of phase. You need to separate the case shield wire from the negative wire. In 2 wire pickups these are often linked together. If you have 3 wires Earth the shield wire and reverse the positive and negative wires. Better still use a push pull or mini toggle switch which must have 6 contacts.

    wire one of the centre two to live and the other to ground. Wire the pickup positive and negative to the bottom 2 pins . Then wire a diagonal cross shape between top left to bottom right and top right to bottom left.

    If your pickup has 5 wires you need to work out which is which
     
  5. j.s.c

    j.s.c Country Gent

    Aug 19, 2008
    france
  6. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    And then we talk about humbuckers vs. single coil. I guess treat a humbucker as number 2 as if it were two pickups?
     
  7. Hammerhands

    Hammerhands Country Gent

    Aug 26, 2011
    Winnipeg
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  8. hcsterg

    hcsterg Friend of Fred

    Feb 13, 2012
    France
    Yes, absolutely.

    And you mentioned it all :
    [​IMG]

    A+!
     
    stevo likes this.
  9. old fella

    old fella Gretschie

    116
    Dec 11, 2009
    uk
    I have OOP on nearly all my guitars. Usually works bestIMHO if youhave seperate vol contols so you can "Dial in " the sound . Another sound I like a lot is pups both in series and OOP .On some guitars with a limited no. of pots I usually install a combined OOP/series using a single push pull . I worked out how to do this around 10 years ago and many of my friends have copied this mod.
     
  10. j.s.c

    j.s.c Country Gent

    Aug 19, 2008
    france
    Ok, then another question. I have a silvertone 1454 with 3 pickups, ... what else ? from Dearmonds... :))

    All these pickups are marked 1, 2, or 3 from factory line by the someone with a sharpy. And I presume by ears that the 2 in out of phase (with a bobbin in reverse) but I'm not sure, it there a solution to be sure of the way a pickup has been wired (without taking it apart, of course)... ?
     
  11. hcsterg

    hcsterg Friend of Fred

    Feb 13, 2012
    France
    @j.s.c. : a simple test to check first the polarity of the pickup magnets on the guitar as is : approach a compass and see if all pickups are all S or N.

    1 - if all are of the same polarity S or N, then one of the PU is probably wired backwards.
    2 - if one of the pickup is of opposite polarity, then this pickup needs to be wired backward (RWRP).

    If you Silvertone 1454 is all original, chances are that the issue is certainly the 1 -

    Do you have the matching Amp-In-Case ? o_O

    A+!
     
  12. j.s.c

    j.s.c Country Gent

    Aug 19, 2008
    france
    iw61k6kunol24msf2hon.jpg

    No amp in the case, but a real wood guitar !
     
    hcsterg likes this.
  13. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    But what if it's intentional?
     
    j.s.c likes this.
  14. j.s.c

    j.s.c Country Gent

    Aug 19, 2008
    france
    I will check magnets N/S, but yes it makes sense to me that the middle one was out of phase from the factory... but I need to be 100% sure. Btw, there are not much details info/archives for these Harmony made axes on internet (sadely the main site is down for months after the nice guy crossed the styx, RIP).
     
  15. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Yikes - may he RIP.

    I imagine it's nearly impossible to find much on Harmony.

    Fender apparently uses reverse wind/reverse polarity with middle Strat single coils and they can become hum cancelling when combined:

    https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/pickup-polarity-and-phase-made-simple

    Could yours be designed this way?
     
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