Not loving the blacktops in my 5420

[Marv666]

In fact, on my G5220TLH Dark Cherry Metallic (DCM), the pickups are Dual Coil Super Hilotron (DC SHT), which are humbuckers designed to sound like single coils, while staying perfectly silent.

These pickups were originally installed on the G5620T (neck) and G5622T (1st version with 3 pickups). They are excellent pickups : crisp, delicate and fonky like a single coil, but not thin like a Fender, rather warmer sounding - all this without hum or noise. I'm happy to see that the DC SHT seems to make a return on the 2023 Gretsch line !

A+!

Is there any place to buy these pickups seperately?

 

[hcsterg]

Is there any place to buy these pickups seperately?

AFAIK, the answer is no, unfortunately... Only the 2nd hand market, it seems... But with the advent of their integration to the 2023 new Gretsch line, they may be available as spares ?

A+!

 

[Goldie270]

I'm a Strat guy...and a Tele guy too I'd say. I never had a humbucking guitar until a few years ago when I got a pre-FMIC Round-up with ceramic Filtertrons. I mostly just noodled around with it and never played in a band situation. I bought a 5420 last year because I was looking for a different flavor. It plays great and everybody compliments me on its looks. Finally got to playing it with a band jam a few weeks ago. Playing it through my SF Princeton it's not bad but not the twangy thing I like about Fenders. Through a Vibrolux 5F11 clone, I'm pretty much hating it. It gets completely lost in the mix until I turn it up so loud the walls shake. Some guitars go better with some amps/pedals so I can reserve the 5420 for the Princeton.

I guess my question, besides the above observation/rant, is whether changing to HS Filtertrons or TV Jones Classics will get me twangier? Maybe this has been beat to death already but I'm not sure I'm hearing a significant enough change in YouTube vids. Opinions are mixed in all my 'net surfing. Or I could just love it for what it is; something different from my usual sound. I really like the way it looks and plays.

Are they blacktop filtertrons or broadtrons? For me personally, it's hard to tell the difference visually. You sort of have to know which Gretsch put in what guitars at which time lol. Js, if it's the broadtrons, anything is better IMO

 

[ThePluckedString]

I'm late to this thread, but I put TVJ Classics in my G5420T, TVJ PowerTrons in my G5657T, and my G6128 '53 Duo Jet came with T-Armonds. I love all of them, but they certainly give me different things.

 

[Gui-S]

I´m new to Gretsch guitars and pickups, but I´m a bit confused.
In order to get a Gretsch to sound like a Gretsch, you need to invest a small fortune in TV Jones pickups?
I was hoping that the the 3 Gretsch guitars I´ve bought in the last 6 months would sound like Gretsch guitars, but I could be wrong.

Still, I liked the BT Broadtrons in my 5220 a lot with my Laney and Blackstar amps, but as I now use Marshalls I´ve replaced them with regular Filtertrons.
The BT Broadtrons are very mid focused, and with the mid focused Marshalls it got a bit much, but I´m happy again with the Filtertrons in the guitar together with the Marshall amps.
I´ve kept the BT Filtertrons in the 5232 and they sound greats with all my amps, at least to my ears, and they are not far from the regular Filtertrons spectrum.

The neck pickup in the 5260 was not great, but that guitar is not what a part of what you could call "the Gretsch sound", so it´s just a preference thing.
I changed it to a Roswell Rickernbackert style, installed out of phase and it is really, really great in the middle position going through a fuzz.

 

[dswo]

I recently put a TV Jones Classic in the neck and Classic+ in the bridge. I also replaced all the wiring. I prepped a lot, but it still took me twice as long as I expected. When it was over? The TVJ Jones pickups have a little more character and refinement. But it's not a fundamentally different sound. To me, this says: Black Top Filter'Trons really are Filter'Trons. The guitar you already own is a version of That Great Gretsch Sound. The most pronounced change was in the bridge: the Classic+ does sound twangier than the BT bridge.

About 3 weeks have passed since I replaced the stock (black top) pickups with TVJs. Inwardly, I questioned the effort and expense of the upgrade. But a week ago, I moved the neck pickup a little closer to the strings, and that has given it more body and volume. I’m now very happy with the change. But I liked the guitar before, too.

 

[dswo]

I´m new to Gretsch guitars and pickups, but I´m a bit confused.
In order to get a Gretsch to sound like a Gretsch, you need to invest a small fortune in TV Jones pickups?

That’s not the message I’ve gotten from reading this forum for six years. Lots have bought TV Jones (including, now, me). But lots have also said the blacktops are pretty good.

 

[capnhiho]

I put TVJ’s in my 5420 (Supertron and Classic+) which resulted in what I would call a more “refined” tone than the original BTFT’s. But then I realized that I missed the brash attitude of the Blacktops.

Sooo… I took the next step and bought a G5245T Double Jet with BTFT’s and semi-hot rod wiring. Gretsch goodness galore - those Blacktops aren’t going anywhere!

 

[tommyhawk13]

I´m new to Gretsch guitars and pickups, but I´m a bit confused.
In order to get a Gretsch to sound like a Gretsch, you need to invest a small fortune in TV Jones pickups?
I was hoping that the the 3 Gretsch guitars I´ve bought in the last 6 months would sound like Gretsch guitars, but I could be wrong.

Still, I liked the BT Broadtrons in my 5220 a lot with my Laney and Blackstar amps, but as I now use Marshalls I´ve replaced them with regular Filtertrons.
The BT Broadtrons are very mid focused, and with the mid focused Marshalls it got a bit much, but I´m happy again with the Filtertrons in the guitar together with the Marshall amps.
I´ve kept the BT Filtertrons in the 5232 and they sound greats with all my amps, at least to my ears, and they are not far from the regular Filtertrons spectrum.

The neck pickup in the 5260 was not great, but that guitar is not what a part of what you could call "the Gretsch sound", so it´s just a preference thing.
I changed it to a Roswell Rickernbackert style, installed out of phase and it is really, really great in the middle position going through a fuzz.

Gretsch made many different types of pickups, like Chevy made different engines. You can't really compare a Chevette to a Corvette.
Are your "regular" Filtertrons HS?

 

[BuddyHollywood]

I´m new to Gretsch guitars and pickups, but I´m a bit confused.
In order to get a Gretsch to sound like a Gretsch, you need to invest a small fortune in TV Jones pickups?
I was hoping that the the 3 Gretsch guitars I´ve bought in the last 6 months would sound like Gretsch guitars, but I could be wrong.

Still, I liked the BT Broadtrons in my 5220 a lot with my Laney and Blackstar amps, but as I now use Marshalls I´ve replaced them with regular Filtertrons.
The BT Broadtrons are very mid focused, and with the mid focused Marshalls it got a bit much, but I´m happy again with the Filtertrons in the guitar together with the Marshall amps.
I´ve kept the BT Filtertrons in the 5232 and they sound greats with all my amps, at least to my ears, and they are not far from the regular Filtertrons spectrum.

The neck pickup in the 5260 was not great, but that guitar is not what a part of what you could call "the Gretsch sound", so it´s just a preference thing.
I changed it to a Roswell Rickernbackert style, installed out of phase and it is really, really great in the middle position going through a fuzz.

You don't need to invest in TV Jones. The Gretsch HS Filtertrons are great pickups and come in most of the Pro-Line Gretsch guitars. There are also other aftermarket Filtertron style pickups of varying prices. TV Jones are expensive but they are also stellar.

 

[Emergence]

I haven’t posted about this until now. I’m actually of two minds. I appreciate the clarity I got from Ray Butts pickups in my 6118T Anniversary but the overall tone wasn’t much different from stock Filter’Trons. I dropped TVJ Classic and Classic Plus pickups into my Gibson SG and love them. They’re perfect for a solid body guitar. That said, you can do a lot for tone with a multi band equalizer. I use my BOSS EQ-200 with all my guitars for tone shaping on the input side. An equalizer can help tame ice pick and remove a bit of mud. It also makes a great clean boost. It’s the first thing I’d try if I was just a little dissatisfied with tone. An equalizer has another advantage over a pickup swap. It can be used with all your guitars.

 

[VRomanojr]

An equalizer can help tame ice pick and remove a bit of mud. It also makes a great clean boost. It’s the first thing I’d try if I was just a little dissatisfied with tone. An equalizer has another advantage over a pickup swap. It can be used with all your guitars.

I've been tweaking the tone knobs on my amps and pedals from their Strat/Tele positions to see if I can save pickup swap money. I think I need more band time with the 5420 and less bedroom time. Now to find a band.....

 

[Mark 6120]

This ^ There are many tones in every amp. You have to move the knobs. On a 5F11 type amp (single tone knob), you havw to move the tone control when you move the volume control with ANY guitar.

 

[RoughCutTom]

Looking at the TV Jones web site it did not look like the Ray Butts had a mount that would work with a Black Top equipped guitar. Did I miss something?

No radd—

Because TV is honoring Ray Butts (and his family's contribution that made the reproduction's accuracy possible), the "full fidelity" model is only offered for vintage and pro-line body construction-style guitars, but making adapters is actually super-easy.

They make it seem like it might be an un-natural thing to do, but they want certain pickups to be an exclusive thing they offer only for certain guitars as a caché of sorts. Whatever.

Just cut a piece of 1/8" plexi or aluminum (I've done it both ways) and fab a little plate that the Ray Butts pickup screws onto using its supplied SAE-threaded screws (google it or search on this website for more information on fabbing the plate) Ask TV Jones what the American pickup threads are. I assure you, it is super-easy if you have hand-tools. Buy American Gretsch screws from Gretsch to make your life simple. Then get either Pro-line two-hole (or three-hole Electromatic) pickup rings, which your guitar may already have. Some Blacktop-equipped Electromatics have a huge metal rings— I got cool gold rings for the two hollow-bodies I adapted. One has two-hole rings and the other on has three-hole.

Either two or three-hole style rings work equally well. If you already have three-hole version rings on your 5420, use those rings if you prefer. Just transfer your metric springs and otherwise SAE hardware to the rectangular aluminum or plexi plates you cut to size after drilling and tapping SAE threads. If you make 1/8" plexi rings, after you drill the holes try using a sacrifice screw held by a little ViceGrip™ pliers to tap the threads if you don't want to get a real tap. You'll need a real proper tap if you use an aluminum plate.

You'll need a specific drill for the tiny tap for the two holes for each pickup and either two or three additional holes for the pickup ring mounting on that plate you make. You will be able to find out what threads the pickup has and what the Gretsch hardware has if you ask the right people. It might be #4-40 or possibly #3-48 as well. It's easy to do, but the specific tools (drills, taps and maybe tin-snips) aren't what most people have lying around the house. I used tin-snips to trim off the pro-line/vintage style mounting tabs provided on each side of the pickups for mounting in the more expensive Gretsch guitars. I don't recall if cutting off the tab is necessary for our application. You might not want to cut off those tabs if you don't have to. View attachment 203161
Dangs! Lookit what you got~ I think you might be set with the included dimensions, drill and tap sizes. It might not be clear as to the width of the plate, which is 1/2" x 1/4" thick.

My sketch isn't to scale…

If it were made of aluminum (or plexi) I feel that 1/8" thick might be thick enough to support the threads. For plexi, 1/4" thick is still pretty easy to work with. Like I noted above, the two-hole pickup-height adjustment format Gretsch pickup rings are great, but if you have the three hole rings, you'll need to drill and tap one hole on one side and two holes on the other side for the springs and screws. Just use your original pickup rings as a drill template for the springs and the pickup's through-holes for the pickup's template.

Lucky you-- haha!

Ooh, I found a fancier one too— made out of wood by a better (man) than me that Johnny Ultras Designs drew~ heehee!

View attachment 203162

Wow, KNEW I came to the right place!
This is exactly what I want to do on my 5422tg. Yep, TV Jones seems really cagey despite trying to throw them my $$$. Told me their direct fit Butts Ful-Fidelities simply wouldn't work on my Electromat 5522tg, but I don't give up easily. Will this same mod work on my model? Is that Johnny Ultras block to the same dimens as your simpler one and does that basically suspend under the pup or glue to the back of the guitar? Thanks a ton!

 

[ZackyDog]

Wow, KNEW I came to the right place!
This is exactly what I want to do on my 5422tg. Yep, TV Jones seems really cagey despite trying to throw them my $$$. Told me their direct fit Butts Ful-Fidelities simply wouldn't work on my Electromat 5522tg, but I don't give up easily. Will this same mod work on my model? Is that Johnny Ultras block to the same dimens as your simpler one and does that basically suspend under the pup or glue to the back of the guitar? Thanks a ton!

G5422TG, right (not 5522?) ? Weird. Did he tell you why? I put two (2) TV neck Classics in my G5230T (it came with special mounting hardware, bottom right):


They also worked fine in my G6122-1962.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

When I play a Tele through the 5f11, the amp tone knob is around 3. With HS Filtertrons, it’s around 7. Mine has a bright switch too; off for the Tele, and on for the Gretsch. I get all the twang I need either way.
I always put more stock in amplifiers than guitars when “getting tone”.
I think tweaking your amp in the band context is the low-hanging fruit. In any ensemble setting, I’m trying to find “my slot” amidst the other voices. It’s not the same when doinking around by myself at home.
Patience Grasshopper, patience…

 

[Stefan87]

Wow, KNEW I came to the right place!
This is exactly what I want to do on my 5422tg. Yep, TV Jones seems really cagey despite trying to throw them my $$$. Told me their direct fit Butts Ful-Fidelities simply wouldn't work on my Electromat 5522tg, but I don't give up easily. Will this same mod work on my model? Is that Johnny Ultras block to the same dimens as your simpler one and does that basically suspend under the pup or glue to the back of the guitar? Thanks a ton!

Technically they are correct as they offer the Ray Butts in traditional gretsch mount and no ears mount... not the universal mount like their other pickups like the classics where they come with adaptor plates and a different bottom plate to fit them into an your G5422.

They can be fitted but will require making adaptors or buying adaptors, which I don't think TV Jones themselves sell.

 

[RoughCutTom]

G5422TG, right (not 5522?) ? Weird. Did he tell you why? I put two (2) TV neck Classics in my G5230T (it came with special mounting hardware, bottom right):

View attachment 206860
They also worked fine in my G6122-1962.

To clarify, it's an Electromatic G5422tg (fully hollow, double cut, bigsby...). Rep said the Ray Butts were direct mounting and would not work with suspended-mount design of my model. He did - with a bit of cajoling - come back and show a little movement on ability to mod, so at least that's promising.
I'm still uncertain how that Johnny Ultras adaptor fits, though all.the techs I've run it past said better to mount to the back as a riser underneath the pup to avoid any sympathetic response with the vibrating top that could cause feedback issues. Trick is that piece was suggested for a 5420 which has a 2.75" body depth and my 5422tg is 2.25", a 1/2" more shallow and it looks like that adaptor is supposed to be 1/4" thick???
I'll probably take the plunge and figure it out. If I have to rig it as a suspension bracket under the top, I'll risk it. Those pups are the antithesis of high gain and it's not like I play at high volume.

 

[RoughCutTom]

Technically they are correct as they offer the Ray Butts in traditional gretsch mount and no ears mount... not the universal mount like their other pickups like the classics where they come with adaptor plates and a different bottom plate to fit them into an your G5422.

They can be fitted but will require making adaptors or buying adaptors, which I don't think TV Jones themselves sell.

Right and I'm fine with that - do it all the time as I build commercial CBGs and do guitar repair.
That Johnny Ultra adaptor looks like a good start but my 5422 is 1/2" shallower than the OP's 5420, so I'll just have to jump in and figure it out.

 

[audept]

Welcome to the forum, @RoughCutTom !