My great amp debate Tweed Deluxe vs Vox or .....

Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by Derek Irving, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. Derek Irving

    Derek Irving Electromatic

    49
    Nov 8, 2015
    Santa Rosa, CA
    I'm looking for feedback/your findings: I have a Tweed Deluxe (5E3 clone) with Weber 12A125A speaker, 25W transformers. The amp has decent headroom, good weight, doesn't mush out, etc but there seems to be a bit of mid scoop or something (can't put my finder on it) maybe it's the compression of the amp, or the tubes, etc. I classify this as my full band gigging amp.

    Then I have a Vox Pathfider 15 (solid state w/stock 8" celestion bull dog speaker), this amp covers my low volume duo gigs, and has this upper harmonic/high end chime/grind that is not existent in the Tweed Deluxe. This adds quite a bit of character, complexity and helps put the sound out front a bit more then the Deluxe.

    So without selling/trading my Deluxe for a Vox AC15 (kind of heavy IMO) would changing to a different speaker in my tweed deluxe (e.g. use Celestion or Weber Blue Dog or another Weber/Jensen/?) help or is this a one amp or the other amp scenario? I'm only in a position to have one amp for full band gigging meaning it's either the tweed deluxe or i sell/trade the deluxe for something else?

    And for a curve ball would a Nocturne Mystery Brain (w/ preamp/abby) or similar Dyno Brain help on my deluxe?

    My tone inspiration: Early 50's rock n roll rockabilly (chuck berry, bo diddley, eddie cochran, etc) for more recent Nick Curran, JD Mcpherson, The Paladins, etc
     
  2. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    If a mid-scoop is the issue, a speaker like the Celestion Vintage 30 might help, as it has an notable mid-range hump in it's response curve. I'm recently a big fan of Tone Tubby as well... I own the 4040 Ceramic and the GMC Alnico and both have a very detailed mid-range response. Yes they are pricey, yes their website is not as flashy as their larger competition, and yes they are excellent speakers.

    Another thing you might try is a EQ pedal in front of the Deluxe, see if you can fill out the mids that way.

    As for the Brain question.....it may not help with the mids, but it will definitely improve your amp.
     
  3. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    I would start by experimenting with the tone stack of the 5E3. If you don’t know your way around tube amps, understand the risks of high voltages present within these amps, or do not have the training to work on these amps, I would suggest that you employ an experienced tech to do this. There are potentially lethal voltages present in tube amps.

    That having been stated, if it were mine, I would jumper another p.04u uF cap in parallel with C14 and see it you don’t recover some sparkle. A lower value cap, perhaps 250 pF, in C4 might help as well. Once again you could test this by jumpering a 500 pF cap in parallel to C4. Either of these mods would have the effect of reducing midrange bled off through the tone control, although the C4 mod would probably only noticeably affect channel 1.
     
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  4. wabash slim

    wabash slim Gretschified

    Age:
    70
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
  5. BohemianLikeMe

    BohemianLikeMe Gretschie

    298
    Apr 18, 2020
    Prague, CZ
    The cheapest solution, IME. And if you notice you like a certain EQ but don’t want to bother with a pedal, then you can make mods to your amp based on that.
     
    wabash slim likes this.
  6. lathoto

    lathoto Gretschie

    275
    Apr 23, 2020
    Ohio
    JHS Colour Box V2. You can dial in about everything with that pedal.
     
  7. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    IMO, and experience with a 5E3, you're not going to get it close to that "Vox" tone with the clean chime.

    It's a Tweed Deluxe, and it has all its own charm for what it does.

    The old saying holds true. "You can add dirt to a clean amp, but you can't add clean to a dirty amp."

    Yes, speakers can change the voicing to a point, and even some amp mods. But in the end what do you have? A tweed Deluxe.
     
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  8. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    Completely two different animals. I love them both because they are so different sounding. A speaker change will not change that. The Vox AC 15/30 has chime while the 5E3 has grunt and grunge.
     
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  9. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    Exactly, and no EQ pedal can get around that.
     
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  10. wabash slim

    wabash slim Gretschified

    Age:
    70
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    The answer is simple. A/B both. One will have "your" sound. Either that, or use both. For me, the Vox won out over a Fender.
     
  11. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Friend of Fred

    Age:
    56
    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    I'm a VOX guy, but I've read about some folks who use a Celestion Blue alnico (my a favorite speaker) in a Tweed Deluxe.

    upload_2020-8-29_14-21-7.jpeg upload_2020-8-29_14-21-23.jpeg upload_2020-8-29_14-21-41.jpeg upload_2020-8-29_14-22-14.jpeg
     
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  12. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    ZackyDog likes this.
  13. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Friend of Fred

    Age:
    56
    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    I like Jensen alnicos. To me, they are similar to Celestion alnicos. Those P10Rs sound great in a '59 Fender Bassman.
     
  14. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    My favorite "clean tone" was with a P12R type speaker. It was really a heavenly clean, but not much of it based on what the 5E3 is.

    Unfortunately, hit that hard, and it just folded.

    The best compromise to my ears was a Weber 12A125O or a 12A150O. Both sounded at home in the 5E3.

    I miss that amp.
     
    Gretschtim1 likes this.
  15. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Friend of Fred

    Age:
    56
    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    I don't follow you on this.

    Maybe you can find something comparable on eBay or Reverb?
     
  16. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    Just not very much clean headroon, but what was there, was really special.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  17. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Friend of Fred

    Jan 19, 2012
    Maldon UK
    Have a look at the first pair of coupling caps. Rather than trying to add top end, reduce the bottom instead. It's a 10 minute job to swap them out.

    Reducing the value of the 1st bypass cap is another way to a similar point.

    The 5e3 is what it is, but will respond to a bit of tweaking. Don't forget to crank the tone knob. I've built a few now, but wouldn't bother again because of their lack of versatility. Since I built a 12" Princeton Reverb, I sold all my tweed amps in a huff.
     
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  18. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Country Gent

    Age:
    52
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    I have an original blown speaker out of an early 70’s Fender Princeton, was replaced with a comparable Jenson. Is this speaker worth anything, for re-cone?
     
  19. Henry

    Henry I Bleed Orange

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    EQ, any kind should work. If you are on with digital, I'd look at the source audio, you could have a setting for each amp/guitar. If you want analog, I really like my free the tone, but it is pricey.
     
  20. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    You won't turn a Fender into a Vox without completely rewiring it. Sounds like you need a Mesa Boogie to give you the best of both worlds. ;-)
     
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