Is It Plagiarism?

Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by drmilktruck, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. Henry

    Henry I Bleed Orange

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    That's funny because world wide, a huge number of professional musicians never write their own music for p. They just cover classical and jazz compositions.
     
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  2. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    Yeah it goes both ways. There's players and then there's writers. Sometimes they do both but a large portion of great players haven't written a song.
    Many of the great studio players who day after day came up with great licks never were song writers. In my head I always was a writer first and then a player. I taught myself drums, guitar, bass and piano so I could use them to write my songs on. I had to work really hard at becoming a pretty good player. Writing was something I always did - the only thing in my life that was easy for me to do. After all these years writing and recording is still my favorite thing to do. It's the thing that has kept me sane after all the disappointments I've had with record labels, publishers, managers and most recently the pandemic...:D.
     
    Henry likes this.
  3. Sea of Love was a doo-wop era tune, as I recall.
    1959 Phil Phillips (er, Batiste as writer) & the Twilights. Looking it up: was Phillips’ lone hit.

    The Razmatazz thing even lifts Plant’s vocal treatment
    of his remake of the earlier tune, with new words.

    In illustrative arts, you can parody an original &
    requires you know the original to work, as a parody. I suppose soooup cans are like that.

    Patent law is one weird game.
    Which is what I was trying to point out in the mention of shyster lawyers who patent things in the public domain, or invented, but not patented by a private party & then take the real inventor to court for patent violation.

    Did someone say patent law protects the originator in this thread somewhere?
    Putting your brand on somebody else’s work. Who would do that?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  4. NiterideGuitarist

    NiterideGuitarist Electromatic

    91
    Jun 4, 2016
    Rochester, NY
    Yes, I also wrote a popular song! It’s hard not to. However you start, you may have a lyric, or you hear a note in your head. It becomes a sound, a chord, then a progression, it gains a tempo and low and behold you really have something. You work on it hoping it might just be your “One Hit Wonder” and then as you crush it, you realize even though it’s not a I, IV, V, it’s been done before! Hard not to be some form of “that’s been done before”. Bend, pull off, slide, change picking style, use a pick or not, change the tempo, change the key, still nothing new. I’m chasing a sound with as many chord changes as Clapton’s version of Over the Rainbow, and House of the Rising Sun, or Hotel California hoping I can find something new! Still fun trying though, and I do have published songs which are my inspiration. My “Hotel California” song turned out to be a song called “Our Day Will Come”. In my 20’s I played the 8-track over & over. 50 years later... “Whoop, There it is”. I’ll bet you’ve been there too!
     
  5. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    That's the scariest thing about being a song writer. Every time one comes in your head you worry and wonder for days and months if it's something that was already written. Sometimes it keeps me up at night if it's one that I really like.
    I don't think that ever goes away.
     
  6. gazzie

    gazzie Electromatic

    10
    Nov 10, 2010
    Frome
    Regarding Led Zep, they were quite shameless sometimes. This is just one of many I could post
     
  7. gazzie

    gazzie Electromatic

    10
    Nov 10, 2010
    Frome
    Just one more...I couldn't resist it!
     
  8. mr coffee

    mr coffee Country Gent

    Oct 7, 2009
    Houston
    Ever notice that the Sunshine guitar solo is the melody of Blue Moon?

    I stumbled across this a while back. I struggled with the idea for a bit, but I think context is important. Wearing your influences on your sleeve is one thing but it doesn't take long to reach a level where it's all shades of grey.

    -m

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. David_GS

    David_GS Electromatic

    58
    Oct 16, 2020
    Toronto
    Yeah, I thought that was the interesting thing about the song, is that it seems to steal more from the cover than the original.
     
    Runamok likes this.
  10. David_GS

    David_GS Electromatic

    58
    Oct 16, 2020
    Toronto
    The Jet song seems the embodiment of the meme, "Can I copy your homework?" "Yes but make it different." The IDKHow song seems to have the feel of Sea of Love, some of the vocal feel of Plant's cover but yes, different thematically. Like at several points in the song it sounds like "come with me myyyy love," could be the next line. Like they wanted it to sound like a love song but be about a toxic relationship. I thought that was a nice touch.
     
  11. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    I'll have to take a listen - never noticed because it just sounds like another rock/blues solo to me. I like the feel and melody - that's what draws me to most songs.
     
  12. Hoot

    Hoot Electromatic

    25
    Jun 25, 2019
    Southern IL, USA
    Years ago, I came up with chord changes that a couple of years later sounded exactly like a song by Spirit, entitled "I Got a Line on You."
     
  13. Fat Bastid

    Fat Bastid Gretschie

    163
    Jan 16, 2021
    England
    The Yardbirds (with Jimmy Page) stole this first as a live song in the set..
    Got a bootleg of it somewhere.. It's on last Hurrah In The Big Apple..
    Wonder if I can find it on YT??

     
  14. Henry

    Henry I Bleed Orange

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    I had a dream once that I wrote an awesome song, played and listened to it and thought it was great. I woke up and all I could remember was it was called Songbird. It was probably a rip off of the Grateful Dead's Birdsong, one of my favorite songs.
     
  15. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Agree totally. It's a very gumby soft line and I think stand up musicians realize that it's a progressive art that builds on itself. For instance - did "Blurred Lines" steal any revenue or cause people not to listen to "Got to Give it Up"? I realize that's not quite the standard used, but for me it highlights why so much of this is absurd.
     
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  16. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    That's fairly blatant. In this case, whole intro, opening words etc. etc. are the same. But I also wonder what standard we were applying at that time that it took Holmes until 2010 to sue? I don't know how much sense it makes to sue later based on different / newer standards?
     
  17. Not the same thing, but here’s an angle to go to
    instead of unattributed, possible, uh—plagarism:

    Songs which refer back to other songs.

    Example:
    We’ve Got to Get Out of This Place by Eric Burdon
    has the “Day Tripper” riff... at least the version on House of the Rising Sun album.
     
  18. To whom is the song attributed & did that involve royalties when released as an album? If a knock off is an improvement over the original, does it matter?

    This could be a boon to tribute bands!
    And your pillow was probably gone! :D

    So far, the Dead tribute bands aren’t claiming credit, are they?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  19. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck I Bleed Orange

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    Bert Jansch's version of Blackwaterside "inspired" Jimmy Page to "write" Black Mountain Side. Jansch contemplated suing Page but since it was a version of a known folk tune, it was decided he would be unlikely to prevail. Still Jansch maintained he was ripped off and deserved money.



     
  20. Zeppelin was, at its core a tribute band, after all.
     
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