"If something is hard to do, it's just not worth doing" Homer Simpson

stevo

Friend of Fred
May 1, 2012
7,080
Atlanta
Duck and cover drills for tornadoes and nuclear blasts at our school where the same thing. We did them all through elementary school but not middle school and beyond. I started middle school in ’76

Yep. Same here except that my teachers soft peddled the bomb blast thing and just talked about tornadoes and "civil defense".
 

Byron

Country Gent
Sep 4, 2009
1,176
uk
The 'boomers' sometimes seem to be overweight, bitter, lazy and convinced that they're right and intolerant of anyone elses opinion. Quite the opposite of their attitude as hippy kids. Shame. I remember my parents becoming cynical and embittered in their later years so maybe it's just part of life's journey. My kids often express that wonderful wisdom of youth.....why fight wars, why shoot at each other, why all the hate, why all the bigotry and intolerance. I'm an old git but my kids remind me to avoid the stinky pit of being a grumpy old loser.
 

Bertotti

Friend of Fred
Jul 20, 2017
9,553
South Dakota
The 'boomers' sometimes seem to be overweight, bitter, lazy and convinced that they're right and intolerant of anyone elses opinion. Quite the opposite of their attitude as hippy kids. Shame. I remember my parents becoming cynical and embittered in their later years so maybe it's just part of life's journey. My kids often express that wonderful wisdom of youth.....why fight wars, why shoot at each other, why all the hate, why all the bigotry and intolerance. I'm an old git but my kids remind me to avoid the stinky pit of being a grumpy old loser.
Sign of the times an inability to age gracefully not liking what they see in tue world we are in now. I’m not a Boomer but I am close and my parents were old enough that they weren’t boomers. But I can see how they could be bitter and cranky. I’m getting pretty cranky with things I consider supremely stupid. Part of aging I suppose But more I think is a feeling of a lack of control. I can’t say all boomers like to be in control but all the ones I know think they should be in control. Possibly just the circle I am in. Sadly control is an illusion.
 

wabash slim

I Bleed Orange
Feb 10, 2010
17,734
lafayette in
There you go, bragging about your education again. Middle School? My middle school was working as a coal miner, which I did on my way to my other job, shoveling manure on a brontosaurus farm. :)
You got a shovel? Lucky stiff!
The 'boomers' sometimes seem to be overweight, bitter, lazy and convinced that they're right and intolerant of anyone elses opinion. Quite the opposite of their attitude as hippy kids. Shame. I remember my parents becoming cynical and embittered in their later years so maybe it's just part of life's journey. My kids often express that wonderful wisdom of youth.....why fight wars, why shoot at each other, why all the hate, why all the bigotry and intolerance. I'm an old git but my kids remind me to avoid the stinky pit of being a grumpy old loser.
I'm overweight, but only intolerant to bigots and the self-righteous.
Sign of the times an inability to age gracefully not liking what they see in tue world we are in now. I’m not a Boomer but I am close and my parents were old enough that they weren’t boomers. But I can see how they could be bitter and cranky. I’m getting pretty cranky with things I consider supremely stupid. Part of aging I suppose But more I think is a feeling of a lack of control. I can’t say all boomers like to be in control but all the ones I know think they should be in control. Possibly just the circle I am in. Sadly control is an illusion.
I never was in control. Anyone who desperately wants to be in control probably shouldn't be allowed to be.
 

gentlemanbass

Electromatic
Aug 28, 2011
91
mactier
Younger generation are more conformist. Push corporate media talking points and think they are progressive.

Not all of them but a higher percentage.

Then my generation like Neil Young are 100% hypocrites. The Needle and the damage done. Yeah right Neil!
 

AZBrahma

Synchromatic
Dec 18, 2020
565
Arizona
Looks can be deceiving. Per capita rural areas and states receive far more of these “handouts” than urban areas. Either way, though, I’m ok with that.

Yes there are schemers who work the system to avoid working. But there are also the elderly without family, the homeless youth running away from abusive homes, the veterans left destitute when the country decided it had no further use for them, the mentally and physically ill or disabled who can’t afford or access care…. All in all I would prefer to live in a country that takes care of the latter groups even at the risk of helping the “undeserving.”

A bureaucracy capable of perfectly distinguishing between those “deserving” and “not deserving” help would be astronomically expensive, and most folks who complain about freeloaders would not want to pay for it.

I hear what you are saying here, but these formal arrangements are not the only way to skin a cat. Before those existed in any meaningful way, these types of needs were often handled at the local community level - and often still are - by fellow citizens in the area. It never ceases to amaze me that civil human society will always effectively arrange itself to take care of its own on many different levels. It really only seems to fall apart when someone thinks other people can just get help elsewhere instead of engaging themselves and being part of the solution.
 

Bertotti

Friend of Fred
Jul 20, 2017
9,553
South Dakota
I hear what you are saying here, but these formal arrangements are not the only way to skin a cat. Before those existed in any meaningful way, these types of needs were often handled at the local community level - and often still are - by fellow citizens in the area. It never ceases to amaze me that civil human society will always effectively arrange itself to take care of its own on many different levels. It really only seems to fall apart when someone thinks other people can just get help elsewhere instead of engaging themselves and being part of the solution.
Bingo! I can’t say more without getting into verboten territory.
 

fretbuzzard

Gretschie
Apr 18, 2009
253
Not here.
I hear what you are saying here, but these formal arrangements are not the only way to skin a cat. Before those existed in any meaningful way, these types of needs were often handled at the local community level - and often still are - by fellow citizens in the area. It never ceases to amaze me that civil human society will always effectively arrange itself to take care of its own on many different levels. It really only seems to fall apart when someone thinks other people can just get help elsewhere instead of engaging themselves and being part of the solution.
Fair enough. IMO both/and > either/or. It’s a big set of problems and requires diverse solutions. We don’t live in Alexis de Tocqueville’s world any more.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,929
Tucson
Perhaps part of the problem is generalization. I have a relative who is nearly 80, and still works, albeit less than he used to. It’s not financial necessity; the man is quite prosperous and could afford virtually any lifestyle, but prefers to work. Actually, I understand that, completely.

Among the “Millennials”, there are some hard working people, and there are some real slugs, just like it is for any other group of people you might choose by some arbitrary criteria. If you took everyone named Al and did a longitudinal study you would find that some were dishonest, some were honest, some were teetotalers, and some were lushes, some were lazy and some were industrious.

There is a Millennial among my coworkers, and we see eye to eye on any number of points, but differ on a few others. I know people among my age peers that I consider to be completely out to lunch, and others whom are solid citizens. I could say the same about people in my grandparent’s generation, or about people that are just out of high school. We do everyone a disservice when we make blanket assumptions based upon some demographic trait.

The same is true of generalizing someone based upon a viewpoint. IOW, if someone believes “A” to be true, then they must also believe “B”, “C”, ”D”, and “E”. My opinions are all over the map, and are based upon my observations and experience, and not the membership of some party, or affiliation to some demographic.
 

MrWookiee

Country Gent
Jun 17, 2020
1,461
SoCal, USA
There is a Millennial among my coworkers, and we see eye to eye on any number of points, but differ on a few others. I know people among my age peers that I consider to be completely out to lunch, and others whom are solid citizens. I could say the same about people in my grandparent’s generation, or about people that are just out of high school. We do everyone a disservice when we make blanket assumptions based upon some demographic trait.

The same is true of generalizing someone based upon a viewpoint. IOW, if someone believes “A” to be true, then they must also believe “B”, “C”, ”D”, and “E”. My opinions are all over the map, and are based upon my observations and experience, and not the membership of some party, or affiliation to some demographic.
+1
 

afire

Friend of Fred
Feb 12, 2009
5,619
Where the action is!
We do everyone a disservice when we make blanket assumptions based upon some demographic trait.
While that's true, I think the complaint about Boomers isn't a complete fallacy. There's no question that they were born into a USA of unprecedented opportunity and economic growth and stability that no longer exists. And the resentment among younger people comes from often being characterized as lazy, entitled, unenterprising, and responsible for everything that's wrong in the world, while in reality they entered the workforce without those same opportunities, growth or stability. It's not fun to come of age seeing that the days of owning a home and raising a family on one blue collar income have already slipped away and then somehow feel like you're being blamed for a predicament you didn't create.

None of which is to say that most, or maybe even many Boomers massively reaped the benefits of their time, or bear much or any responsibility for that loss of opportunity, growth or stability. But it would be hard to deny that the people who did reap the benefits and did cause the damage were, in fact, mostly Boomers. So my point is, if you're a Boomer, you really don't need to take offense at some of these broad and overgeneralized complaints, unless you actually see yourself in them. Then again, easier said than done. What feels like an insult feels like an insult.
 

blueruins

Country Gent
May 28, 2013
4,446
Savannah, GA
Maybe we can just agree that things could be going better and leave the finger pointing out of the equation.

After all, most of us are the good people and the ones who aren’t are the ones to whom “divide and conquer” is a manifesto.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,929
Tucson
Younger generation are more conformist. Push corporate media talking points and think they are progressive.

Not all of them but a higher percentage.

Then my generation like Neil Young are 100% hypocrites. The Needle and the damage done. Yeah right Neil!
And it has been like that for a very long time. The bands in the late sixties spoke out against the materialism and greed of their parent’s generation, frequently while living in luxury that their parent’s generation never experienced, or even desired. They considered themselves non-conformist, but most of them were completely conformist to their peer group.

Every generation, to some extent, thinks that they have solutions to the ills of the past, But life doesn’t let us off the hook so easily. In the sixties, the Vietnam war was a unifying force for people coming of age during that era, and it had a lot of power, because it was very unpopular, but even at that, there were plenty of young people that were not opposed to that war. I had a guitar teacher that voluntarily enlisted in the Army during Vietnam, and some of that generation viewed military service as a civil duty. I’m not promoting either view, but just showing that conformity is never absolute.

Businesses needed to make a profit then, and they need to make a profit now. The extent of reasonable profit is a matter for debate, then, as it is now, but little has changed in the big picture. There’s no way to avoid certain realities. For example, the Amish avoid connection to the outside world, but they still have to farm profitably or charge for their manufactured goods. Just because someone gets up on stage and renounces the injustices of the world doesn’t make them immune to participation. I want to make things better, too, but I’ve come to the conclusion that the best thing I can do is to be self sufficient, use my resources wisely, and provide direct help to others, when needed.

With that as backdrop, someone like Neil Young is a perfect example of just how tricky it can be. Neil Young is a poster child for the counterculture of the late sixties, but it's not that simple. If you look at Neil Young in the ‘80s, he was pretty close to mainstream Country Music culture. He was on Nashville Now and didn’t look, or behave differently from the more traditional Nashville artists that were on with him. 5-10 years later, he was a Grunge artist, and displayed the appearance and attitude expected of a Grunge artist. I think that there was a period he did some ‘50s style Rock n’ Roll, as well.

Like all performers, Neil Young knows that you have to give the audience what it expects. If you play to whatever is trending socially, you are likely to attract a larger audience. Among the Country artists a generation or two ago, were any number of drug abusers, alcohol abusers, etc. but they took pains to present themselves as having the values of working class Americans, many of whom had no use for drugs and used alcohol sparingly. The wholesome image was part of the show, and not necessarily at all reflective of the values of the artists. Many of the late ‘60s bands made it obvious that they had values which differed from those of working class Americans. This too, was part of the show.
Heck, if you think millennials are sensitive, watch what happens when you refer to a 70+ year-old as “elderly” or a “senior citizen!” You’d think you’d called their Gretsch ugly! 😉

Perhaps part of the problem is generalization. I have a relative who is nearly 80, and still works, albeit less than he used to. It’s not financial necessity; the man is quite prosperous and could afford virtually any lifestyle, but prefers to work. Actually, I understand that, completely.
I didn’t really conclude my point here, so I will now. I mention a relative that continues to work, well into his 70s. He’s fit, able bodied and more than pays his way in life. I don’t think he deserves to be called elderly, or a senior citizen. If you were to gauge the social contribution this man makes by the taxes he pays, you would find that he is much more productive than almost anyone you are likely to meet. Likewise, his business has supplied essential services to other businesses, medical providers and charities.

Terms like senior citizen or elderly seek to pigeon-hole people by age. Many cultures, throughout history have revered their older members and given great weight to their opinions. In Native American communities, tne term “elder” carries with it immense respect. Even when someone in the US retires and collects Social Security, they are collecting based upon the amount they contributed to the fund, so they are not getting some sort of handout. My contributions to Social Security are deep into 6 figures, so I will feel no guilt about collecting, when the time comes.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,929
Tucson
While that's true, I think the complaint about Boomers isn't a complete fallacy. There's no question that they were born into a USA of unprecedented opportunity and economic growth and stability that no longer exists. And the resentment among younger people comes from often being characterized as lazy, entitled, unenterprising, and responsible for everything that's wrong in the world, while in reality they entered the workforce without those same opportunities, growth or stability. It's not fun to come of age seeing that the days of owning a home and raising a family on one blue collar income have already slipped away and then somehow feel like you're being blamed for a predicament you didn't create.

None of which is to say that most, or maybe even many Boomers massively reaped the benefits of their time, or bear much or any responsibility for that loss of opportunity, growth or stability. But it would be hard to deny that the people who did reap the benefits and did cause the damage were, in fact, mostly Boomers. So my point is, if you're a Boomer, you really don't need to take offense at some of these broad and overgeneralized complaints, unless you actually see yourself in them. Then again, easier said than done. What feels like an insult feels like an insult.
I came of age with the shank of the “Boomer” generation. The first 12 years I was in the workforce were very challenging. I was a blue collar worker, and couldn’t have dreamed of owning a home on my income alone. Even with a wife that worked full time, it would have been difficult. I recall times when businesses had sign on their doors stating that they were not hiring, because so many people were out of work. Interest rates soared in the ‘70s and by 1980, I had pretty much given up hope of owning a house.

By the mid ‘80s, things had improved and I was making a decent living in a semi-skilled position. I went back to school and was able to improve my situation, but none of this came easily. In 1981, I remember a day when I had $2.50 to my name and a tornado struck. I sat with some friends, and we hand printed business cards to distribute in an unincorporated area, offering roofing for people that had lost their roofs. It worked, and I was able to get on my feet, financially, at least for a while.

A Blue Collar worker being all but assured of owning a home was much more realistic for the WW II generation, but not of mine. It’s all but impossible to make an apples to apples comparison of what my father faced, what a sibling nine years older than I faced, what I face, and what persons of other, more recent age groups face.

Both of my parents were dependent children when the Great Depression started, and both were affected. My father’s career path was delayed because of the Depression, and then completely derailed by WW II. He never fully overcame these setbacks. While we lived in a pleasant suburb and had reasonably decent vehicles, by the time I was in my teens, there were many earlier years when things were tight and our family car was a 10 year old rustbucket. I literally remember praying that the car would start the next morning, because it was not certain that it would. My parents both worked, and worked hard, but their life was not easy. I don’t believe that my father ever truly knew prosperity, in his working years.

I had an incredible opportunity come my way, and made the most of it. I’m not rich, but I’ve done better than I would have dreamed possible. In no way do I feel entitled, nor do I feel that I have it made, because I certainly do not. However, when I saw an opportunity to better myself, I didn’t wait for opportunity to knock twice. There are a lot of early mornings, a lot of late nights, a lot of weekends worked, and no extra pay for any of this. Besides that, there has been constant learning, which never stops, so even during off time, I may well have had my nose buried in a book, or paying exorbitant costs to maintain various certifications.

Most people are just trying to get by. Today was my payday, and every dime was already spoken for by the time it arrived. This is true for a lot of people, and most people just want to survive. Blaming a particular generation is nothing new; my generation blamed our parent’s generation for the problems we inherited. So, does my father struggling against circumstances not of his own making somehow make him responsible for the challenges my generation faced? Does the fact that I beat the odds and overcame the limitations of my own situation somehow make me responsible for that challenges today’s youth face. BTW, I helped a coworker to learn my profession over a period of 8 years and he replaced me, when I changed jobs. I got a break in life, and I paid it forward to someone else, who was able to better his situation. If you expect me to feel guilty, don’t hold your breath.

But it has always been like this. One set of my great-great grandparents lived in isolation, as lighthouse keepers, back in the old country. Are they to blame for the challenges their children or other descendants faced? This is a rough world, for most people. Succeeding in being self sufficient starts with believing that you can find a way, and being willing to work in that direction, even when there are setbacks. I’ve started over from virtually nothing, more than once. Refusing to give up is the starting point. Life is unfair, there’s no doubt about it, but the Baby Boom didn’t create that situation.

These are challenging times, but I’ve seen conditions reverse, more than once. If we despair and give up, failure is inevitable.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,929
Tucson
Maybe we can just agree that things could be going better and leave the finger pointing out of the equation.

After all, most of us are the good people and the ones who aren’t are the ones to whom “divide and conquer” is a manifesto.
Great point. We’re all in this together. I wish nothing more, or less, than opportunity, for everyone. Beyond that, it’s out of my hands. However, a defeatist attitude will spoil even the greatest opportunity.
 


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