I want to add a Strat Pickup to the middle position of my Custom T Armond's guitar

Discussion in 'Technical Side of Things' started by motw, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    thanks for the help! That is my main concern also.. What does the diffenret magnet depending on strings traduces to in tone and volume?
     
  2. swivel

    swivel Country Gent

    May 13, 2018
    PNW
    The 69's in particular are all the same pickup, one of the only Strat sets that are.
    Here's a fuzzy table of strat pickups. I dont have a clear copy.
    Generally the hotter the pickup, the higher the reading, the less bright and thin it is.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. stiv

    stiv Country Gent

    Sep 12, 2014
    Florence, Italy
    Well, middle pickups are always tricky. It’s the position that has a kind of strange harmonics on it. I do have it on my Kay but it’s a hollow body, and I do have a 50s style P90 on middle position on my Loar (think of a ES 125, hollow body as well). Both are pretty peculiar so the sound can’t compare. If it can help you, this is a middle position lipstick clean sound. Keep in mind that Seymour Duncans are way more powerful and clear

     
  4. DennisC

    DennisC Synchromatic

    Age:
    37
    941
    May 11, 2017
    Germany
    I'd hesitate, too, like @loudnlousy said - the guitar is really beautiful!

    But as it's your guitar ... it's also your decision, of course ... we're not to answer the why, just the how. Or something. Anyway...

    This potentially leads to hundreds of usable combinations, of which hardly anyone needs all ... which ones are you going to use? Only the combination with the neck pickup? If so, and the neck is RWRP, it's easy and any non-RWRP will be at least partially hum cancelling.

    ... but the hum in combination with the bridge pickup might be really loud, which would leave this less usable, especially in overdrive. This would be one of my concerns about it, but maybe it could be handled later on, if you have to keep an eye on the cost now and insist on the 3rd one being a single coil.

    Is there any reason to rule out noiseless ones or using one coil of a humbucking pickup in each position? A SC-sized humbucking pickup might work well here, if you'd use one of it's coils for combination with each TA, the other for the other ... we had a similar question recently, where a guitar had a Powertron between two T90, which, as I understood it, ended up with a wiring similar to a dual humbucker guitar with coil tap, just the four coils are in three housings instead of two. This could be a way to go, if you're after combinations with the bridge pickup also, and would be doable with a surprisingly simple wiring. You can find the discussion around this here:

    http://www.gretsch-talk.com/threads/3-pickup-wiring-help-please.199944/

    Hm ... I don't know what became of this in the end, but the wiring similar to 2 HB+split is, kind of, making me staring to consider a three-pickup-guitar the first time, as I think it is pretty cool and somehow elegant.

    I'm not that qualified in strat pickups and SC-sized humbuckers (the usual side-to-side coils - stacked for Tele I could recommend a pair that sounds really really SCish), but this - just with different pickups than in the T90-Power-T90 mentioned above - might work out well here, too.

    Another way to deal with this could be a dummy coil with no magnets whatsoever, that could be engaged when needed and could be used to lower-to-cancel any hum regardless of orientation ... just switch over the ends and it receives reversed hum, therefore one coil can cancel out hum, at least partially, of every pickup and combination. The winding count must be fixed, but a reduction of hum always is possible.

    I double the advice on making another pickguard - the one you have looks too nice to cut experimental holes into it...

    I can't really recommend a pickup to you, but I'd at least have a thought on the SC-sized HB, as this is way easier to cancel out hum and maybe even sounds similar. If this is to your liking, a mid-to-high output bridge pickup - given that in each setting only one coil is engaged, added to the T-Armond - as one coil of a pickup meant to be high output won't be high output anymore.

    ... sorry for the length of my Blabla, but ... I tend to long stuff and could either make it complete or short, and ... who don't care don't need to read...
     
  5. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    HI, thanks for the long response! I have discarted HB because of the size and also the sound, I also like the guitar as it is, but is it more important to me to be satisfied soundwise, that being said I don't want to ruin the looks with a HB. I really want some of the quack of the Strat, I have a feeling it will create a great mix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  6. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    I would like a new 2, 3 and 4 positions. I always use the neck position, which is great, but I find myself rarely playing the central position and never the bridge. This pikcups are expensive so before selling the bridge one and messing with the design of the guitar I want to try and improve it.

    Now that I know I won't getting cancelling for both positions no, I will consider also a noiseless one.
    Would this one work?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fender-Vin...1fbbd9f:g:ONwAAOSw-v5d15Xb&LH_ItemCondition=4
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  7. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I have Fenders Hot Noiseless first gen in a strat really strat like. One question is there room under the pick guard or is it only routed for the two T Armonds? You may have a bit more work ahead of you if there isn’t room under the pickguard for a middle pup.
     
  8. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    Hi, whats the uotput on those? I have a problem with volume matching in theory. I would have to ask the luthier to make some room by digging a hole in the wood.
     
  9. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I
    I have no idea what they measured. I just know I loved them from the moment I put them in. I’m not even sure you could get one singly new. Maybe used or an alternative from another source. I was worried I would give up my single cool character when I got them, maybe a little bit not enough to bother. For an actual single I do love the over wound Tex mex in my other strat. Very Jimmy Vaughan.
     
  10. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    My guess is they’ve tried to tame the strident highs/treble of the plain strings by using a “softer” magnet.

    I’d fully expect a company like Seymour Duncan to magnetize the A5 magnets to the same Gauss strength as the A2s, so no volume differences.
     
  11. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    Will I have to ake an special order? Or is there a pickup the would work?
     
  12. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    The problem is those have such low output
     
  13. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
     
  14. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    The thing is that I want to add some different colors to my combination. A T Armond in the neck is interesting but I don't want to spend 120 in one pickup again, plus I want different colors. I must just put the one I have in the middle and get another one for the bridge, but that would look awful. The bridge position is unusable for me and the middle is interesting, but not a keeper. I play blues mostly.
     
  15. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    Is this a good Strat pickup? How would the bridge one sound in the middle position? I am intrigued by this option.
     
  16. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Synchromatic

    713
    May 20, 2016
    Australia
    On re-reading this thread I gather you don't like the bridge pup. "The neck is interesting" but not enough to spend $120 bucks on another for the middle.

    You will never know what the middle position will sound like by asking others for a word description. More importantly no-one can guess what the positions 2 or 4 will sound like.

    You've got an attractive guitar there, my suggestion is, sell it, and buy a Strat with known qualities and reputation as a blues guitar.

    I can't think of a single blues player ever making it on a guitar equipped with dyna's.

    Just my opinion but the thread is going around in circles.
     
    BorderRadio likes this.
  17. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Country Gent

    Mar 6, 2014
    Phoenix, AZ
    There is only so much that can be said about this particular mod. It’s one of those ‘go there to know there’ things really. If you don’t really like the middle position, or the bridge pickup, it is a little concerning. I suggested common cheap Strat pickups because 120 is too much for another T-A, and because you can experiment at low cost. There is no way to tell if it will meet your wants, but at least the cost will be minimal. Output matching is an issue, or it’s not, because really, if you want more sounds coming from your guitar, a low output Strat pickup will be just that, another tonal option. The quack will happen, I’m sure of that, but you will need to play with the combinations of pickup heights and rod heights.

    You want to look at inductance if you want to come close to T-A output. There is lots of info in fellow member Antigua’s table I linked below, but basically if you mess with the filters, you can find Strat pickups that have an inductance that will match the T-A neck, but whether that sounds good is anybody’s guess. Only your ears can make that call. I think a vintage Strat pickup at 5.5 to 6k would be cool, like a Strat hiding in your Duo Jet. But that’s me just taking a guess.

    Also, if you save and get another T-A, consider the following: the neck pickup is the sound you like, and the best fit for the middle pickup position, IMHO. If you do get an extra one, you can pull the magnets from the extra neck pickup and install them in the bridge pickup, and vice versa. Then you will have RWRP for both quack positions. I’d do that, sell a pedal or something because neck position T-As are some of my most favorite pickups around. The bridge position is good too, just wish they had some lower wind options for different positions along the string. :)

    Pickup Data Link
     
  18. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    I’ve never tried these myself. Just trying to think along. It’s what I would do myself if I were in your shoes.
     
  19. Bertotti

    Bertotti Friend of Fred

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    @motw here is a link to the tex mex. 100$ for all three. texmex 99.00$

    And here is a link to the Fender hot noiseless by far my favorites but I love the tex mex also if I had to pick one it would be these. Hot noiseless 199$

    Both links have a demo. I suggest getting the extra pickguard and build it with one of these sets and then mix and match till you are happy with the results.

    I just wanted to add this set as well since I think someday I will add a Strat with them or a custom build with them. Texas Special 199$
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  20. motw

    motw Electromatic

    40
    Jun 14, 2018
    CHile
    I really like the sound of my T Armond in the neck, I didn't start this thread to figure out exactly how it would sound, I'm just asking about if it can be done and if it would wouldwork as I want it to work, just blend. I am willing to take the risk on that one, as I did when I bought the T armonds.

    I don't want a Strat, just some of its sounds to mix with mine, otherwise I would sell theses pickups and just get a Strat set.

    Thanks for the advice.
     
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