how to preserve the binding rot

Discussion in 'Vintage Gretsch Discussion' started by Ian_Norma, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    Hi to all..
    I'm new to the forum, and I would like to ask you if you have any suggestions on how to preserve the binding-rot on vintage 60s gretsch.
    I own an amazing (to me.. ;)) 1964 Gretsch Country Club in Cadillac Green which suffered, as usual in those years, the infamous binding-rot problem. I have heard from some sources (luthiers, forums) that one way to limit the progress of the crumbling was to coat a transparent enamel film all around the body.
    This treatment could somehow "fix" the progress of the problem..
    Has anyone experience in this? Any suggestions on specific products to suggest to my luthier?
    thank you in advance,
    all the best, :)
    I.N.
     
    JeffreyLeePierre likes this.
  2. Les Pedals

    Les Pedals Gretschie

    220
    Mar 29, 2017
    South Jersey
    050AF9EB-FD00-44FB-9701-4EA83D346D23.jpeg I’m not sure if anything is out there but I did my binding replacement job and it’s not difficult or expensive. Once the old binding is removed (use the exact sized chisel) it’s measure, cut, and glue, tape, wait to dry, then clean up the excess glue with Naptha.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
    Lockupyourfatdog and Ian_Norma like this.
  3. JeffreyLeePierre

    JeffreyLeePierre Country Gent

    Welcome to Gretsch-Talk.
    I doubt you'll get sound pieces of advice here unless you post pics of your marvel 1964 Country Club in Cadillac Green.

    If you plan to bring it to a luthier, why not having a replacement? Did you ask the price for quick fix VS complete replacement?
     
    j.s.c and Ian_Norma like this.
  4. stiv

    stiv Country Gent

    Sep 12, 2014
    Florence, Italy
    I did exactly what you’ve heard on my ‘67 Rally. The binding rot was there but there was no pieces missing, so the transparent coat apparently worked very well. The transparent coat (that it has been applied only on the binding angles, not in the whole body) yellowed a bit the already-yellowed binding, other than that I had no other damage or other worsening. I didn’t tour that much since I had the Rally (well, I guess nobody did... I only played a gig with it) so I couldn’t test it on real battlegrounds, but I extensively played it at home and everything looks and feels fine ever since.
    I don’t know how much it would cost to replace a rotten binding, but I payed for a couple of hours of my guitar man (so around 60 euros).
     
  5. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    Thank you all,
    as suggested I've uploaded some pics in detail.. IMG_2219.jpg IMG_3066.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    ToneM1, new6659, speedicut and 4 others like this.
  6. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    and I forgot to specify .., I'd rather keep the original binding rather than replace it entirely .. ;)
     
    JeffreyLeePierre and Les Pedals like this.
  7. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    Grazie 1000 per il suggerimento, vedo che sei di Firenze.., potresti darmi qualche indicazione sul liutaio che ti ha risolto il problema? Al momento io sto a Venezia..
     
    stiv likes this.
  8. afire

    afire Country Gent

    I don't think that adding a coating with stop the chemical reaction that's happening, but I could see how it might help to keep what's there from falling off.

    The best thing you can do for it is keep it out of its case. The conventional wisdom (bolstered by repeated observation) is that the gasses emitted by the binding deterioration being trapped in the case exacerbate the problem.
     
    JC higgy, j.s.c and Ian_Norma like this.
  9. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    Thank you for your suggestion, I'll keep in mind..
     
  10. JeffreyLeePierre

    JeffreyLeePierre Country Gent

    Bellissima!

    The original binding is not completely destroyed then what you wanna do makes sense.
     
  11. stiv

    stiv Country Gent

    Sep 12, 2014
    Florence, Italy
    Excuse us fellas while we’re talking some trash in Italian language...:D

    Ciao, io il lavoro l’ho fatto da Stefano Malusi, a Cervia. Era il tecnico delle chitarre di Ivan Graziani, ed è specializzato in chitarre vintage, soprattutto Gretsch (ogni tanto qualche collezionista suo cliente ne mette qualcuna in vendita nel suo negozio, ho visto delle gemme niente male... senza ovviamente potermele permettere :)). Il binding della mia Rally era più “brutto” (è tutto più ingiallito) ma meno rovinato del tuo, ma ho visto un trattamento fatto a una Country Gentlemen del ‘65 che perdeva letteralmente i pezzi mentre era appesa alla parete, ed era completamente intatta alla fine. Se vuoi posso darti il numero di telefono. Non è proprio a buon mercato, ma di sicuro se gli dici che ti manda Stefano (il Forlivese di Firenze) ti tratterà bene.
    Ah, e complimenti per la chitarra, è una bellezza. Avevo visto altre Country Club vintage ma quasi tutte natural. La tua è spettacolare. S
     
    RG7X likes this.
  12. Wayne Gretschzky

    Wayne Gretschzky Country Gent

    Aug 27, 2008
    East Coast
    Some have postulated that the "rot" is a reaction of the adhesive and the binding, and as such is actually happening from the inside outward. Thus, sealing the surface may not hinder that chemical reaction. But it sounds like some posters here have experienced some luck with the sealer approach so who knows.

    That's a sweet looking Club you've got there (I have a 6196 from '62)!
     
    Ian_Norma likes this.
  13. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    Il grande Maestro Malusi, con cui ho chiacchierato varie volte nel corso dei vari guitar show in giro per la penisola. Non so se si ricorda di me a voce ma sicuramente e' uno dei piu' preparati in queste genere di cose. Ho trovato un suo numero online, provero' a contattarlo nei prossimi giorni, spero sia il numero corretto. Ti ringrazio tanto per l'info, non sapevo piu' come risolvere il problema, ho chiesto a chiunque in giro, arrivando poi a postare su un forum americano che come spesso succede .. porta la soluzione a poco piu' di un centinaio di km sotto casa.. ;)) la chitarra ringrazia per i complimenti ma forse (ancora non certo..) potrei metterla in vendita per finanziare un'altro acquisto nei primi mesi del prossimo anno. Infatti volevo risolvere il problema prima di decidere o meno su questo avventato gesto.. Grazie ancora!!! Un saluto
     
  14. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    Thanks indeed !!!
    Any suggestion is always welcome!
     
  15. JC higgy

    JC higgy Gretschified

    Age:
    50
    Jun 6, 2008
    Belfast Norn Iron
    Welcome to GT Ian!

    Beautiful aul Club that,shame about the rot.Be aware that the rot will stain the finish as it gets worse,maybe not much of a problem with a dark green finish but something to think about.
     
    Ian_Norma and Les Pedals like this.
  16. audept

    audept Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Age:
    73
    Dec 1, 2010
    Sydney, Australia
    Welcome to the forum, Ian_Norma!
    welcome mat 102.jpg
     
    ToneM1 and Ian_Norma like this.
  17. Henry

    Henry I Bleed Orange

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    If that's the case wouldn't sealing in the gasses make it worse?
     
    Ian_Norma likes this.
  18. afire

    afire Country Gent

    That would seem intuitive, but like Ed said, I guess if it's worked alright for some people, maybe there's something to it. My wild guess is that it's not truly sealing anything, but is acting more like a glue, just holding what's there together. Again, just guessing.
     
    stiv and Henry like this.
  19. stiv

    stiv Country Gent

    Sep 12, 2014
    Florence, Italy
    For what my guitar man has tried to explain me, it’s something in the middle between that an a sealing. Technically it should be a transparent glue with some coating capacity. Of course, I’m no expert so I may have understood the wrong explanation :)
     
    Ian_Norma likes this.
  20. Ian_Norma

    Ian_Norma Electromatic

    8
    Dec 22, 2020
    New Jersey
    ..I think I probably found the answer to the problem: bi-component epoxy glue not based on acetone. It fix the affected area without penetrating the underlying layer. The result should be a kind of "crystallization" that prevents the further breakdown of the binding. I'll try on a small area with my trusted luthier and let you know.
    Thank you each of you for the precious contribution and interest.
    This is a community in the true sense!
    Thanks, be well and healthy!
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.