Gretsch production moving back to the US?

[LesB3]

I agree with afire.... It is entirely possible to build top quality guitars competitively priced in USA (C.F.Martin Co., Nazareth, PA, USA). The challenge would be the time required to establish a "well oiled machine" including a strong sense of teamwork and commitment at every level of the organization.

The article said that the Jackson line was co-located with the Jackson / Charvel / EVH custom shop. Makes sense that any Gretsch USA line would be co-located with that CS as well. I've never been to Corona so no idea how everything is set up there, but I would imagine that the USA line would cater to a select group of customers that are willing to pay near-CS pricing for a US built Gretsch. I don't see any threat to the current model there, especially in the next 5 years. The Gretsch offering can't be >$5k USA models followed by <$1k Korean models.

BUt on the other hand...

We love to knock Gibson, but they can do it too. sub-$2k Les Pauls still come off the line, up til last year, the LP Special Tribute was under a grand. Labor and materials are pretty much the same, building them here eliminates the slow boat to / fro China, and nullifies currency exchange issues. I could see something like a Jet being run through a big shop in larger numbers though, and sold for less than $3k. Gibson does it every day...

 

[aloner]

I feel like it makes way more sense for bolt on solid bodies than Gretsch's and heading into probably a recession/being in more challenging financial times atm anyway, idk that making guitars more expensive and inaccessible is really a great idea. Glad I picked up my Gretsch when I had a chance even if it is "just" a lowly Tennessean haha

 

[afire]

We love to knock Gibson, but they can do it too. sub-$2k Les Pauls still come off the line, up til last year, the LP Special Tribute was under a grand. Labor and materials are pretty much the same, building them here eliminates the slow boat to / fro China, and nullifies currency exchange issues. I could see something like a Jet being run through a big shop in larger numbers though, and sold for less than $3k. Gibson does it every day...

Every time this subject come up I pop up the Gibson and Gretsch websites for some comparison shopping. Let's take a look at the two brands' sort of foundational solid/chambered and semi/hollow models...

Gretsch G6128T-59 Vintage Select Duo Jet - $2,799.00.
Gibson Les Paul Standard '50s - $2,799.00.

Gretsch G6120T-59 Vintage Select - $3,499.00.
Gibson ES-335 DOT - $3,499.00.

So, no, it's not impossible to build similar types of guitars to a high standard in the US for comparable prices. Whether it's worth the effort is a different question entirely. I'll admit that as an American with a deep affection for Gretsch's history, I'd be happy to see it happen. Although, I'd be much more comfortable if they could find some space in Brooklyn to build a factory. It's just Brooklyn. That should be cost effective, right?

 

[DavyH]

I have a Terada 6136T, and I'm impressed with how well it plays and how exact the detail-work is....
And therein lies the problem. It's TOO shiny and precise. As the original owner of my '63 Harrison-spec-before-anyone-knew-who-George-was Country Gent I recall clearly seeing it when new as hand-made. The Falcon, on the other hand, feels manufactured. I see much the same handbuilt thing in both of my recent USA Fenders. That might be just part of the American vibe, exportable to but not reproducible in other places.

My MIC guitars have an ever more robotically-stamped-out thing going on, and I've come to believe that much of the adoration heaped on offshore guitars comes from the same place as the Communist sympathies of many South Vietnamese, who upon the "liberation" of that country, piled into leaky boats and headed for the nearest Americans.

 

[afire]

...Harrison-spec-before-anyone-knew-who-George-was...

Just quoted to express my appreciation for lengthy strung-together hyphenated descriptors.

 

[TV the Wired Turtle]

that is just not going to happen. All the years of training, tooling and skilled builders uprooted.. never... theyve got it mastered there in terada. But, they should start making gretsch guitars again instead of these gibson things w B-7s, set post bridges, and no neck pitch. Uncle Joe, set them straight would ya??

 

[G5422T]

The only thing that hasn't really been discussed is the "business investment" for the manufacturing facility.

That's BIG BUCKS for someone to invest, so that they can "produce" guitars that are on "JT" quality level for the same price.

Instrument sales aren't on any rocket that's going up now.

Never say Never, but I don't see it anytime soon.

Now if Fred Gretsch sells the company, things could change quicker, but it won't be quickly.

 

[tomazb]

Only the quality is important.

 

[tartanphantom]

Only the quality is important.

True, but all the quality in the world won't save you if you out-price your target market.

 

[G5422T]

True, but all the quality in the world won't save you if you out-price your target market.

ProLine pricing is at a level that's pretty much accepted because the "JT" craftsmanship is outstanding for the price paid.

Raise pricing towards the CS level, or "water down" CS pricing for Prolines, and I can't see how that could be good for anyone.

 

[ZackyDog]

USA made has little value outside the USA.

OK, but I like the idea of Americans having jobs that are sometimes outsourced.

 

[BuddyHollywood]

What if Gretsch and Fender sell the license to Gibson to manufacture USA Gretsch? Fender could still distribute. Wouldn't it be really cool to have these two giant guitar companies come together over Gretsch? It sounds crazy but it makes sense to me. It would help Gibson expand again with more domestic jobs and provide them with even more product to produce. The construction of Gretsch guitars is closer to Gibson than Fender anyway especially when you consider all of these newer models with the lower neck angle. A huge bonus would be that all of the USA Pro-Line Gretsch guitars would be finished in nitrocellulose.

I would definitely want one.

It's not like there are company secrets to building a Filtertron anymore.

Made in the USA.

 

[LesB3]

What if Gretsch and Fender sell the license to Gibson to manufacture USA Gretsch? Fender could still distribute. Wouldn't it be really cool to have these two giant guitar companies come together over Gretsch? It sounds crazy but it makes sense to me. It would help Gibson expand again with more domestic jobs and provide them with even more product to produce. The construction of Gretsch guitars is closer to Gibson than Fender anyway especially when you consider all of these newer models with the lower neck angle. A huge bonus would be that all of the USA Pro-Line Gretsch guitars would be finished in nitrocellulose. I would definitely want one. It's not like there are company secrets to building a Filtertron anymore. Made in the USA.

Dunno. Gibson doesn't even manufacture a full hollowbody any more, other than the $10k Custom Shop Chuck Berry ES-350T. Everything else is based on the ES-3XX series of guitars. When I asked a couple of years ago, they weren't even willing to make me an ES-175 via the Custom Shop.

Heritage could probably do it. They still make the H-575 (ES-175 style) @4499, and the Eagle Classic (ES-350 style) @ $5399. Those prices would be about right for a non-CS USA 6120 or Falcon. Plus, we already know that they have *some* shop availability / sub-contract experience as I believe the U.S.-made Harmony guitars are made there as well. But ownership might be an issue, Heritage is owend by a Singaporean company now.

Who knows.

 

[BuddyHollywood]

Dunno. Gibson doesn't even manufacture a full hollowbody any more, other than the $10k Custom Shop Chuck Berry ES-350T. Everything else is based on the ES-3XX series of guitars. When I asked a couple of years ago, they weren't even willing to make me an ES-175 via the Custom Shop.

Heritage could probably do it. They still make the H-575 (ES-175 style) @4499, and the Eagle Classic (ES-350 style) @ $5399. Those prices would be about right for a non-CS USA 6120 or Falcon. Plus, we already know that they have *some* shop availability / sub-contract experience as I believe the U.S.-made Harmony guitars are made there as well. But ownership might be an issue, Heritage is owend by a Singaporean company now.

Who knows.

Heritage is a great idea!

 

[afire]

Heritage is a great idea!

It wouldn't be the first time. Heritage built a handful of solid wood carved top and back Synchromatics in the 1990s:

Some seriously nice wood on this one:

 

[Stingray70]

I would be all for it if they can maintain quality. Sadly to many in the USA seem to think quantity trumps quality and that is just pitiful. The industry I’m in attracts people who seem to think they should be paid like doctors work old fashioned bankers hours take breaks every hour punch in early out early and still get 8 hours minimum pay. I don’t see production moving here until my sons Gen gets into the work force these kids seem to have a better work ethic.

Is your son 101 years old? That's the generation that knew how to work...

 

[Bertotti]

Is your son 101 years old? That's the generation that knew how to work...

Nope he is still in high school but the kids here seem to work better than the Gen before them. My Gen, I’m very early Gen X missed boomer by a couple years, worked well also. But I can’t claim this is universal for any particular Gen. I can say at the manufacturing plants I go to the biggest issue are people between about 21 and 45 they have all gotten this pay me and I might be there attitude. And if they don’t want to do something the disappear into the bathroom for 45 minutes. my managers have had classes on how to deal with millennials, and before I’m flamed I know some work well but in our plants good workers are very few and far between.

 

[afire]

Is your son 101 years old? That's the generation that knew how to work...

I’d like to part of the generation that gets a free pass. I’m not sure it exists. It sounds nice on paper, though.

 

[Cryin_Caleb_Aaron]

my managers have had classes on how to deal with millennials,

Oh man, to be a fly on the wall at one of these classes would be entertaining.

 

[AZBrahma]

We love to knock Gibson, but they can do it too. sub-$2k Les Pauls still come off the line, up til last year, the LP Special Tribute was under a grand. Labor and materials are pretty much the same, building them here eliminates the slow boat to / fro China, and nullifies currency exchange issues. I could see something like a Jet being run through a big shop in larger numbers though, and sold for less than $3k. Gibson does it every day...

Remember though at the end of the say that Gibson is still a volume shop first and foremost. They have multiple build quality tiers and the custom shop areas are really specialty departments segregated from the standard production line. Aside from economies of scale, they just sell a whole butt-ton of guitars across the globe. Gretsch will never, and I'd argue could never sell even a fraction of what Gibson moves. I don't think Gretsch customers would tolerate lower quality tiers in American products, really only Fender and Gibson are able to get away with that. So while it is possible to build at that price, they probably couldn't do it at a quality level that matches Terada, and couldn't achieve the economies of scale either since sales are much smaller.

If these were slab bodies, that would be one thing and they could do it, but there is much greater complexity in your typical Gretsch.