Gretsch production moving back to the US?

[Runamok]

Buy now or pay more later...

A technique to keep current prices robust. Short term.
We don’t want US guitar builders to make a good wage?!?

Something needs to change if any industry returns stateside. Either its price expectation, manufacturing process / incomes.

Now that there has been a solid move to CNC technology in Asia, they will always have cheaper CNC operators than the US.

 

[bluenote23]

Well, this would devalue our MIJ Prolines, putting them in a category much like MIJ Fenders.

But let's face it, a very large majority of guitar buyers put US guitars in one category and everything else in another. You can argue with them until you're blue in the face that your MIJ Fender is as good as or better than a Corona Fender but you're talking to a stone wall.

A lot is going to depend on the Jackson experiment. Will the buyers of MIJ Jacksons pay something less than Custom shop prices for a USA made production line Jackson instead of the MIJ? The move is all about making more money so only time will tell.

If Jackson Custom Shop sales stay the same and US sales outstrip MIJ sales, then Gretsch will follow suit.

 

[6120mantis]

You can catch fish just as easy with a $50 ugly stick as you can with a hand made $3000.oo Orvis bamboo fly rod.
Gretsch proline Made in America would be cool but it's not going to improve your musicianship.
Manufacturing is global, the end user tag may say "made in the u.s.a." but it's more likely assembled in the u.s.a. with globally sourced components.
Specs and tolerances have improved globally over time.
Things change though we don't want them too.
And those dang kids are on my lawn again...
Flobbity Flee!

 

[Merc]

I used to be a diehard made in USA kind a guy. And I often still support and encourage USA business when given the option. But my acceptance of built elsewhere opened up while traveling abroad in the Service. Meeting and knowing great people in Japan, England, and elsewhere made me realize there’s nothing wrong with buying products built overseas. As long as it’s not slave labor, etc, and the quality is there. Most people are the same regardless where they live and are simply trying to provide better for themselves and loved ones.

I’m just a regular Joe, been playing music for 24 years, but not as working musician. I work a regular job. I’ve owned five Pro Japanese Gretsch guitars. All were superb. If they had came with a USA price tag I would’ve owned zero. Could I buy a USA made Gretsch? Yes. I personally can’t justify it as it doesn’t make me money. I’ve got retirement and my sons future to save towards. A current Japanese Gretsch is at the max I’m willing to spend.

I’d bet a majority of that Gretsch line are purchased by players similar to me. I think moving all Gretsch pro guitars to the US would hurt the brand more than help it. They’d be selling less. There’s likely not enough difference in quality if they moved production here to be honest. Please leave it as is right now.

 

[Back in Black]

With some brands, not to mention local retail currently standing at the edge of the ''cliff to oblivion'' I'd be very surprised if any of them did anything as stupid as thinking they can make the struggling consumer ''pay more''.

I walk past Ottawa's premier guitar shop weekly to pick up my wife's prescription, and the entire shop is always empty, not a customer to be seen.

Right now, a major guitar purchase, is nowhere near the top of anyone's priority list.

And...neither is having to ''pay more'', not only for guitars but for anything else...like bread and eggs.

John Hall at Rickenbacker must be laughing his can off listening to and watching all this scrambling...humming the tune ''Merrily We Roll Along''.

As far as a Jackson guitar, none in my closet...nor will there ever be.

I'd still have the four Gretsch guitars I own, regardless of where they came from.

Just an opinion.

Best,

BIB.

 

[Seamus]

Well, unless here in the USA they make a ‘No tension bar Bigsby’ rule, but I don’t see that happening either.

But everyone knows Americans always have enormous tension bars. So I wouldn't count on it.

 

[loudnlousy]

Btw.: Did you know that Fender`s "American vintage synchronized tremolo" is made in Indonesia? I was quite irritated to read that on it`s packaging when I bought one of these (and paid quite a steep price for an original Fender part).
Remeber CNC machines are spitting out the same quality whether they are placed in Japan or in the US. That´s globalisation.
So anyways: In the end it should read "assembled in the US", and "QC done in the US" max.

 

[GretschPlayer101]

When I first noticed Gretsch it was Matthew Ashman of Bow Wow Wow with his White Falcon in the "I Want Candy" video. I instantly wanted a Gretsch just like his. This was 1982. I had no idea it was Gretsch or what Gretsch was. Understand in those days Gretsch was the furthest thing from anyone's mind unless you were British or if you were the rare American like Zoom and Setzer. Everone played Fender, Gibson or Ibanez. I saw a picture in some magazine like Creem or so and saw Gretsch name on the headstock of his guitar. I had no idea what Gretsch was. I thought it may be British because BWW were and I never saw an American with a Gretsch, so I thought. But the name is German, I am good at recognizing name origins so I thought maybe it was a German guitar. Yes about that time I saw Setzer in the Cats videos and Billy Zoom in the "Hungry Wolf" vids but didn't know they had Gretsches. Come the late 80s I see Gretsch resurrects it's guitar line and read that Gretsch is actually American. So I assume the company is making all their new guitars in America. Then about 1999 and at GC in Hollywood they have a new White Falcon on display and it has protective covering on the pickguard and Japanese writing is on it. I then realize these are made in Japan. All the air was let out of my tires. I was disapointed and distraught to say the least. My balloon was popped. I thought for the longest times this American company was making guitars here. I was fine with Strats from Japan even though Fender is a USA company, but Gretsch? Come on, should be USA made. Nothing against Japanese and I knew Japanese make great guitars. Even talking to Billy Zoom before that he said he liked Japanese made guitars. He said they made the best Strats. So Japanese made great guitars but all those years I thought these are American made but now I am shocked they are not.
I eventually got over that and I like Japanese Gretsches. I think it is cool I own two USA vintage Grtesch and glad they were made in Brooklyn in that old historic Gretsch building that is now a hipster apartment building. It is nice to know I got a Brooklyn made Gretsch with all the history that goes along with it, but as far as modern Gretsch guitars I am perfectly happy with them being made in Japan. If moving production rocks the boat and the quality decreases or the prices skyrocket then please, stay in Japan. All of this is yet to be seen so let's see what happens when it does.

 

[radd]

Well, this would devalue our MIJ Prolines, putting them in a category much like MIJ Fenders.

But let's face it, a very large majority of guitar buyers put US guitars in one category and everything else in another. You can argue with them until you're blue in the face that your MIJ Fender is as good as or better than a Corona Fender but you're talking to a stone wall.

A lot is going to depend on the Jackson experiment. Will the buyers of MIJ Jacksons pay something less than Custom shop prices for a USA made production line Jackson instead of the MIJ? The move is all about making more money so only time will tell.

If Jackson Custom Shop sales stay the same and US sales outstrip MIJ sales, then Gretsch will follow suit.

I’m sure the quality on a Fender guitar made in Japan is exceptional but I have never considered one because my understanding is that the neck pockets are just enough different in dimensions that you can’t put a custom Warmoth neck or American made neck on one….

 

[Humpblock]

Maybe they’ll get a range of bodies made in Indonesia and China then get them “assembled in USA” with quality components and add an extra few hundred bucks. Aren’t some others doing that, getting them made in Asia and finished in the USA? Streamomatics or Electroliners maybe???

 

[NJDevil]

Yeah, I would love love love for more American manufacturing, but I’m a glass half-empty kind of guy.
I’d bet that we’d be paying $1k more just for the “Made in USA” stamp.
I doubt mass produced pro-lines made in the USA will be much better, or better at all, than the Japanese products.
Well, unless here in the USA they make a ‘No tension bar Bigsby’ rule, but I don’t see that happening either.

The Gretsch brand is a national treasure and very vew things are more "American" to me like a Gretsch.
The fact that they are built in Japan nowadays is not driven by working costs -Japanese workers are earning basically the same as American- but by the fact that there are more experienced facilities over there doing high-quality contract-work.
So I would not expect a rise in production-costs because of this. Fender is building Jacksons in the US now for a reason: Same costs but possibly higher retail prices.
What I would expect is a decline of quality when built in the US.
I don`t want to hurt anyone`s feelings but over here American products are held in high esteem when it comes to brilliant construction but not for their execution.
When I take a look at the QC of a US made Tesla I really have to shake my head. Cars like that would never leave a German or Japanese plant.
Please don`t hate me.

Jumping to German and Japanese car brands for a minute........most of the assembly of BMWs are in the U.S. BMWs are assembled in stages so 1 car will actually have hands from 3+ plants touching it. Nissan, Toyota, Infiniti, have a huge manufacturing footprint in the U.S. I just use BMW as 1 example of multiple others I could've chosen.

Japan and quality. I worked over 7 1/2 years at a very large Japanese Camera company......I have to say I was only 1 out of 2 others in a 900,000 sq. ft. office with 6 Sigma Black Belt certification. The Japanese expats tried very hard to downplay it because I was in an area of quality management. With that stated, Japanese Muda, Kaizen, etc..... are all their own branding from what they learned from the U.S........specifically William Deming's "Total Quality Management".

I am very sensitive on the topic because upper management tried really hard to suppress my ideas by and/or play them off as an expat's. The passive-aggressive company culture was a joke and I had many tricks up my sleeve and I went at them with full force.....I even had the attention of the upper management from many of our corporate customers so I really did not have to be nice..... and I wasn't.

Supply chain and labor issues are currently plaguing a great deal of Japanese industry and may be a contributing factor to Gretsch entertaining a switch to the U.S.

Lastly, I have to say I love my Orient watch, They are a Seiko brand, as is Epson, and part of a larger company known as Seiko Epson Corporation.

 

[afire]

The fact that they are built in Japan nowadays is not driven by working costs -Japanese workers are earning basically the same as American- but by the fact that there are more experienced facilities over there doing high-quality contract-work.
So I would not expect a rise in production-costs because of this.

Everybody seems to overlook this and just assume that they would cost more, but I think you're right. The concern I would have is that Japanese production is a well oiled machine. How much time and effort would it take to get a new facility in the US set up and working that well. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it sounds like quite an undertaking. It's why I've always maintained that proline production would always remain in Japan. It's working well as is so there's really not much incentive to shift gears. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe in the modern age of automated production setting up a facility for efficient and highly consistent production is not as much of an undertaking as I would assume.

 

[SAguitar]

Every note I play
Is made in the USA

 

[Rob_Brindley]

I hope not... In my opinion, Gretsch offers the best value for money / quality out there with the Japanese built instruments. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

If the difference in quality between Japanese built Fenders and American built Fenders is anything to go by, I'd take the MIJ variant any day of the week. I've got a few newer Gibsons and they finally seem to be getting there QC under control, but it was hit and miss for a long time...

American manufacturers seem to excell at the super high end stuff, but the mass production instruments certainly leave a little to be desired.

 

[AZBrahma]

Sometimes weird responses in this thread. Am I the only one here who views quality on a maker-by-maker basis and generally disregards country of origin? Some US made guitars are the pinnacle of the craft, others are an embarrassment, others are passable and nothing more. Then again there is a huge spread of quality made here, not like Japan where it's almost definitely gonna be good and may be great. Even they pass a turd sometimes though, I had a Japanese Revstar RSP20CR whose build quality was easily inferior to an Indonesian RS820CR I had at the same time (so much for upgrading).

As for Gretsch, eh...I like the Terada made stuff a lot. The quality is pretty much unimpeachable and they have a long history of making these style of guitars long before Gretsch contracted them. I don't see how it could get meaningfully better in the US, but I do see how they could become much more expensive in the process. All else being equal, of course I'd rather see them made in the US, I'm an American. Of course, all things are never equal.

 

[johnny g]

it is all about the sound and quality. if you built it they will come.
(maybe)

 

[wildeman]

Ooh, I hope they bring back the neck screw.....

 

[LesB3]

“I think we see a similar opportunity down the line with Gretsch in particular, because we’re seeing the same trends in regards to demand for Custom Shop guitars made in the USA,” Mooney confirms. “So we see that opportunity down the line, but for now we’re very focused on Jackson, and on expanding the body types that are available – that’s our number one priority.”

I think its much ado about nothing, honestly.

When the layoffs happened at Fender, I remember someone saying that the US Gretsch line idea was killed. Even if they do get something up and running, it will be on a limited basis, and take several years to get there. Your Japanese Gretsch's are safe.

 

[senojnad]

I agree with afire.... It is entirely possible to build top quality guitars competitively priced in USA (C.F.Martin Co., Nazareth, PA, USA). The challenge would be the time required to establish a "well oiled machine" including a strong sense of teamwork and commitment at every level of the organization.

 

[Pine Apple Slim]

I think it would be a shame, the Terada guitars are so damn good. I’m not sure Fender could equal them. Somethings bound to give, either quality, quantity, or price.