Gretsch 5420 Treble Bleed

Discussion in 'Electromatic Gretsch Forum' started by Phruzao, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. Phruzao

    Phruzao Electromatic

    77
    Jan 23, 2019
    Brazil
    Hello!

    I have a 2018 5420 model with the treble bleed on the master volume. Anyone know what's the value on capacitor and resistor in this model???

    I'm asking because the treble bleed in this model don't seems to be very effective! It goes muddy rolling back the master volume.
     
  2. Phruzao

    Phruzao Electromatic

    77
    Jan 23, 2019
    Brazil
  3. capnhiho

    capnhiho Country Gent

    Feb 16, 2013
    California
    I have a 2018 Double Jet that appears to have a treble bleed. It’s a dark green component of some sort - no idea of values, etc.

    D5659A2B-EE4B-4B8F-A135-C6D4B65319D3.jpeg
     
  4. Phruzao

    Phruzao Electromatic

    77
    Jan 23, 2019
    Brazil
    Ok thanks very much! It is an effective treble bleed or do you feel it looses some high end too?
     
  5. j.s.c

    j.s.c Country Gent

    Aug 19, 2008
    france
    1000pico is almost good in every situation
     
  6. capnhiho

    capnhiho Country Gent

    Feb 16, 2013
    California
    I haven’t changed it yet. It’s not awful - I think it could be better.
     
  7. benjwri

    benjwri Country Gent

    Age:
    83
    Oct 27, 2011
    Central ON Can
    Look on the other side?
     
  8. capnhiho

    capnhiho Country Gent

    Feb 16, 2013
    California
    Nothing to see here.......

    Green Chiclet on both sides. Sorry!
     
    radd likes this.
  9. Phruzao

    Phruzao Electromatic

    77
    Jan 23, 2019
    Brazil
    Yesss. Way better. It's still muddy.
    Unfortunately it's very hard to change wiring in 5420
     
  10. Skibbers

    Skibbers Electromatic

    33
    Feb 21, 2020
    Minneapolis
  11. capnhiho

    capnhiho Country Gent

    Feb 16, 2013
    California
    Actually, installing a treble bleed on the master volume of a 5420 is pretty easy. If you’ll unscrews the nut and drop the pot inside the guitar, it’s easy to fish it out through the F hole and solder the parts in place. I can use my fingers to fit the pot back through the F hole and back where it belongs.

    Treble bleeds on the other pots are, however, a little more challenging.....
     
  12. UberJohn

    UberJohn Electromatic

    4
    Oct 10, 2018
    Santa Clara, CA
    Interesting! In the linked diagram for a G6119, the 100k resistor is in series with the 1.2 nF capacitor. This will reduce the level of treble bleed, while the capacitor value sets the cutoff frequency of the high pass filter. And the volume pots for each pickup have a 1nF treble bleed capacitor with no resistor.

    I made a treble bleed for my 5420T with a 1.2 nF capacitor in parallel with 150k ohms. Ok, the capacitor is marked 1nF and measured 1.4 nF on a Fluke 87 multimeter, but it's very nice, pretty much the same tone for the entire volume sweep. The parallel resistor passes a small amount of bass, treble, and lower midrange which helps keep the treble from dominating at low volume settings.

    I like having the treble bleed on just the master volume. I can still get the dark tone from using the volume pots on each pickup, and I can use the master pot to clean up an overdrive or fuzz without affecting the treble.

    The answer to working on the pots and switches in a hollow body is aquarium tubing and string.

    Edit: That green chiclet looks like a metal film capacitor. If it had some numbers on it we could decipher the value, such as 102 = 10 x 10^2 = 1000 pF = 1nF. It is almost certainly a treble bleed, hooked across the input and output of the volume pot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
  13. azrielle

    azrielle Electromatic

    45
    Feb 24, 2021
    Lund,NV USA
    That's uF not nF. "u" = Micro, e.g. 1.2 micro farad, or 1200 pico farads.
     
  14. Ricochet

    Ricochet Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    Is using a treble bleed on an Audio pot a good idea? Why the ridiculously high voltage rating in a passive circuit? o_O

    These TBs are (like most mass produced guitars), using very generic values. Ideally a guitar’s treble bleed should be tuned to the electronic circuit.
    As a reminder for if you want to play around with values. The Cap determines what frequencies are present(higher cap values = lower frequencies).
    Amount of Treble preserved is determined by the resistor value (less Ohms = more treble).
     
  15. UberJohn

    UberJohn Electromatic

    4
    Oct 10, 2018
    Santa Clara, CA
    You are off by a factor of 1000. 1000 picofarads = 1 nanofarad = .001 microfarad. Look up pico (10^-12), nano (10^-9), and micro (10^-6) in the dictionary.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  16. UberJohn

    UberJohn Electromatic

    4
    Oct 10, 2018
    Santa Clara, CA
    This week I finally installed a 1nF capacitor across each of the pickup volume pots on my 2014 5420T. I'm extremely pleased with the results. It's like taking a blanket off the guitar! The difference is only noticable when rolling off the pickup volume, of course.
     
  17. UberJohn

    UberJohn Electromatic

    4
    Oct 10, 2018
    Santa Clara, CA
    The act of walking across a carpet can build up over 1000 volts on your body, and then you touch the guitar strings... some of that voltage ends up across the capacitor in the audio line. You don't want to damage the capacitors with static.
     
    Ricochet likes this.
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