G5260 Baritone Heaven !!! but what's with the pots ?

Discussion in 'Guitar & Gear Reviews' started by thunderbaas, May 11, 2020.

  1. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    Well my new G5260 arrived today. It's a stunning "dark cherry metalic" and it's a real headturner.
    Total beauty. And I should have obtained a bariton way earlier,because it's verry inspiring to hear your routine riffs in a lower darker key. The delays & reverbs work verry well with the fuller lower tones. and then the "dirt" pedals......... Man o man, filthy growling and still squeeking when pinched in bridge pick up mode, Excellent guitar.
    Hats off to Gretsch once again.
    But of course I couldn't resist to take a look "under the hood" . What I found was probably a" treble bleed" on the volume pot & a simple (047 ??? capacitor) on the tone pot. The pots looked kinda cheap Alpha clones. I'm allways modding my guitars with CTS or Palmer pots & at least orange drop capacitors. So it would be great if someone could give the values of these pots en caps ? Guess they are 500 K's and both Log, but I'd like to know for sure ? Check the pictures. If someone could help me out on this info, I'd be verry gratefull.
    all the best
    Henk 20200511_210756.jpg 20200511_210814.jpg 20200511_140508.jpg
     
  2. Medium John

    Medium John Electromatic

    That's a pretty thang ,,, If it's got humbuckers , it's probably got 500k pots . I think you are correct . A lot of guitars will loose the high end when you roll the volume down . A treble bleed or volume mod keeps the high end from changing when you roll the volume back . Here's a link to what I use for that issue . https://www.mojotone.com/kits/GuitarWiringKits_x/Volume-Mod-for-Guitars-2113347
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    thunderbaas likes this.
  3. thunder58

    thunder58 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    Dec 23, 2010
    tappan ny
    Admin Post
    Congrats on the new guitar . I love a baritone guitar myself , funny thing is I've never owned one
     
    thunderbaas likes this.
  4. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    thanks for the Mojotone link "Medium John".
    "Thunder58" I'd really try out a Baritone. To me it's verry inspiring in song writing and recording to ad a layer that's not bass but inbetween bass and the normal guitar chords. To me a whole new dimension in playing opened up. As being a bass player as well,handling the longer neck en thicker strings is no problem. But I pressume for most of the guitarplayers it'll play right down easy. And if you like a bit of metal/sleaze rock chords they sound so awesome with "dirt" pedals.
     
    Randy99CL likes this.
  5. Randy99CL

    Randy99CL Gretschie

    459
    Feb 17, 2020
    Albuquerque
    I like to check the pots myself with a multimeter. I only paid something like $7US for mine.
    Just measure from the center lead to either of the outer ones and keep in mind that the tolerance can be as much as 20% so a 500K can read from 400K-600K and still pass.
    There is no easy way to check capacitors. You may be able to google any markings.
     
  6. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    Thanks for the tips Randy. I still think of replacing the pots with CTS of course measuring the resistance tells you exactly the vallue. But as I understand the high end CTS pots have a tolerance of 5 to 10 % which is rather less than the Alpha's which are used in Electromatics & Streamliner. Last weekend I changed the Alpha's en capacitor in my 2420 (which in fact was a hell of a job because you have to attach the pots through the pick up hole. Maybe it get's easyer when done more often,but took me half a day just to get the pots back in place.) The result though is a much fuller/richer & clearer sound. As capacitor I used a Sprague Orange. Here's a picture of the tone pots with their capacitor. Not only a major difference in sound but in size as well. I think that in the future the baritone will get these as well. But as for now still enjoying the new guitar verry much. 20200522_102940.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    Randy99CL likes this.
  7. Randy99CL

    Randy99CL Gretschie

    459
    Feb 17, 2020
    Albuquerque
    This is an area I'm trying to learn and experiment with.
    For example, I've got a Fender with no tone pot and I'm building a switchbox with different pots and caps so that I can switch them on-the-fly and see how different values affect the sound. Then I'll wire in the tone control I like the best.

    Yes, I've paid about $3 each for orange drop caps but recently found some videos where they say the expensive caps don't sound any better than the cheap ones. Worth a second look.

    As to changing the pots in a hollowbody, did you use plastic tubing? I stumbled across a video showing how:
     
  8. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    20200517_134028.jpg Hi Randy,as the English say "the proof is in the pudding" so the switchbox is a very good idea of finding out what works best for you. There's quite some theory about pots and capacitors and how they work together. My experience is that the orange drops (which are film capapacitors ) sound better then the small ceramic ones. And they won't cost you a fortune ($2 to $3). There are "oil in paper" capacitors (for instance "bumblebees") that can go up to $50 or $75. Which is quite a lot of money for just a small part in the sound chain. Quality pots makes quite a difference as well just as the quality of of your input jack (personally I like the Pure Tone input Jacks a lot,they have two contacts on as well tip as the shaft and are built to last forever) So all these parts ad to a better sound. And now my thoughts about those expensive capacitors. Mind you this is just my vision others may see this completely different. I think there are capacitor "snobs" just like there are wine "snobs" If you paid $75 (0r even more for "vintage" ones) for just a capacitor your mind is set to hear the difference. Like when you pay $500 for a bottle of wine your mind is set to taste the difference to a $10 bottle. Still the difference you can make with capacacitors lies in the value of the pots & capacitors & how you combine those. Standard is o.o47 uf caps with 500k pots,but go try it with a 0.033 uf or o.o22 uf they all sound different (usually lower uf gives lower tone) As for your Fender (I guess it's a strat) they come with 250K pots and o.o22 uf caps standard. But what is standard..... So your switchbox is great idea for finding out. To make things even more complex you can also use 1000K or 1M pots which are used in the Jazzmaster & Starcaster Fenders they give you even more high tones. The Seymour Duncan website has a verry large pick up scheme database which is great for reverence. And another mod which works great for me on my Telecaster is instead of using 250 K pots (which is the usual) I use 500K pots (more high) and for capacitor a 0,0033 uf pot (mind the extra zero !!!) I like my Tele to have a verry agressive high end and with this low capacitor it just rolls of some high verry smooth (got this mod from a Premier Guitar article about modding Teles) But the 0.0033 cap might work for a strat just as well. So there's a world out there to find out. Lots of succes with your switchbox experiment.It would be nice if you'd keep us posted withe the results. Good 'sound hunting" ;) And I didn't use tubes (allthough excellent method) but small pieces of rope attached to thin bendable steel wire for the pots exchange & soldered some bendable steel wire onto the bridge groundwire. Used the original wiring and soldered the replacement pots/switch to that wiring,but got the wiring in a kind of knot after replacing it so it wasn't long enough and had to cut some original wire an resolder it. Found out that it is verry important to start with installing the master volume.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    Randy99CL likes this.
  9. Tele295

    Tele295 Country Gent

    I love baritones and 6SBs. Has anyone tried TVJ Magnatrons in a baritone?
     
  10. Randy99CL

    Randy99CL Gretschie

    459
    Feb 17, 2020
    Albuquerque
    Hi TB, yes I have a unique Fender Pawn Shop '51 (that I've written about many times) that is styled after the '51 Precision Bass with only two knobs and no switches. The guitar has a single coil neck pup and a HB bridge. The volume knob is push-pull to coil split the HB and the other knob is a 3-way switch for pup selection so no tone control. I'm going to drill the control plate for a three-way switch (centered between the knobs) and install a tone pot. Since there is one single-coil and one HB I will try a few different pots and caps to find the combination I like.
    Fender '51 Pawn Shop 2.jpg
     
  11. nasonm

    nasonm Gretschie

    405
    Nov 3, 2010
    New England, USA
    I really like the look of these new Gretsch Baris!
     
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  12. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    Hello Randy.Does your Pawn Shop 51 have a longer neck as well ?
     
  13. Randy99CL

    Randy99CL Gretschie

    459
    Feb 17, 2020
    Albuquerque
    No, the PS '51 has a classic Tele neck. That's where the name comes from, it looks like it was assembled from spare parts like a guitar you'd find in a pawn shop.
    I think it is strange that they didn't fit a tone pot but it's offering me the opportunity to experiment and research. I'll unsolder and keep the original parts for restoration.
    gv2uxlllifjmikirl1jb.jpg
    I'm building a box with two three-way switches and three pots. I'll be able to switch between the three pots and try each of three caps with each pot.
     
  14. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    Great looks this guitar. The proportions of neck/body/pickguard en knob plate are just right. So this has a tele bridge pick up at the neck & humbucker at the bridge. Maybe a suggestion is a 4 way switch which gives you neck/bridge-neck paralel (which is like standard) bridge-neck series/bridge. Like I did on my tele (though I don't know if there are small 4 way toggle switches) and it might work out differently combining a single coil & humbucker (though I understood the HB is splitable)

    https://www.premierguitar.com/artic...super-flexible-super-simple-telecaster-wiring
     
  15. Randy99CL

    Randy99CL Gretschie

    459
    Feb 17, 2020
    Albuquerque
    Yes I consider myself extremely lucky to have found this guitar. I love it, it is one of my favorites and I do especially like the way it looks. Unique.
    It sat on a local sale list for a few weeks before I contacted the owner. She'd gotten zero interest as her price was high. I researched it, liked everything I found out, contacted her and she dropped the price $50 right away.

    These were made in Japan in 2010 and in the catalog in 2011 and 2012. The quality is outstanding, as good as any guitar I own. This one has been well cared for, rarely played and not even a scratch except for some fine ones on the pickguard (probably wiped down with a coarse paper towel).

    I'm drilling between the knobs for a Gibson-type 3-way switch, there's plenty of room there.

    Thanks for the link to the 4-way Tele wiring, I won't do that on this one but have 3 T-types that I want to try it on. Fender even sells a 4-way switch for the mod.
     
  16. thunderbaas

    thunderbaas Electromatic

    18
    Sep 22, 2019
    groningen,netherlands
    Sounds like a great deal you had on this one. Sometimes everything works out great finding guitars. I had this luck with my double jet electromatic. It was sold closeby though I found it on our national selling Web site about 5 years ago. When I got there It turned out to be a musician from a band I knew from my hometown. Who allways used this one as back up to his expensive Duessenberg so the guitar was as new. He settled down got married had kids etc. so wasn't into playing annymore After closing the deal,which was not verry expensive. He came up with a Gretsch guitar case and gave it to me for free. I was overwhelmed and still love to play this one. Not only a great sound but also a great memory obtaining it this way.
     
    Randy99CL likes this.
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