Annoying tuning problems

Discussion in 'Technical Side of Things' started by Stefan, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    Thanks, I know how to set up a guitar. I just thought Guild dressed the nut professional...But what I wanted to know was the approximate difference for the Bridgeposition. I‘m not a native speaker and I‘m not sure if I got Dan Erlewine in a video right? I thought he was talking about 3/16“ more for compensation?

    By the way, the old Guilds got floating metal cups instead of wooden bridge bases. They just look like they‘re screwed in ;)
     
    Sid Nitzerglobin likes this.
  2. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    I assume you mean fretted at 12 and unfretted are both at perfect pitch? I don’t take it any further than that. Being off along the rest of the neck is kind of inevitable. The amount of deviation is influenced by many factors - fret installation, fret height, frets themselves, amount of relief, how hard you press, action height, string gauge, etc. etc.
     
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  3. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    That’s what drives me nuts:
    F8F6A9D0-E253-42C5-A3D5-6FB87FB44A08.jpeg
    Low E, perfect unfretted/fretted at 12th fret.
    9D9CB9A8-4D90-4AED-A1D2-6622B924BB46.jpeg
    ...and here‘s the F, fretted soft at 1st fret on the low E :confused:
     
  4. Gregor

    Gregor Synchromatic

    904
    Oct 17, 2018
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Not to be redundant but it would appear to me that it's too high in the nut slot so when you fret it, it will go sharp. You could tune the open string down a tad or lower the nut slot a bit more. If it or any string goes flat, probably the bridge is moving in which case you might use fiddle rosin or double sided tape, the former being preferred.
     
    Stefan likes this.
  5. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    A can of worms...measurements are good concerning nutheight (0.2“ between fret and string). Bridge stays strong.
     
  6. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Doesn’t really matter. Intonation is intonation. If you want to reduce the amount of saddle adjustment, place the one that needs least adjustment as close to dead middle as possible.
     
    Gregor likes this.
  7. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Pretty common. Only way to reduce it is lower action/lower frets.
     
    Stefan likes this.
  8. Back in Black

    Back in Black Country Gent

    Age:
    72
    Jun 22, 2020
    Ontario Canada
    Stefan,

    I'm with @GretschPraise on this, I've read all the input, and believe you have a tuning machine slippage problem.

    I certainly wouldn't be trimming your nut anymore.

    I have to admit, I'm not familiar with this model, but if it's an entry level Guild, you can bet it's the tuning machines.

    Put some quality machines on the headstock, open gear butter beans, would look nice on that ''vintage appearing model'', and you'll see your de-tuning problem disappear.

    BIB.
     
    Runamok and Stefan like this.
  9. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    Thanks, no, it‘s not an entry model and it‘s got new Grover Statites:
    B0119FD2-16F3-4A2E-8FD6-9D4888CB3566.jpeg
     
    Back in Black likes this.
  10. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Country Gent

    May 20, 2016
    QLD Australia
    Almost nothing above is going to cause your tuning problem IMO.

    The tuners are where I'd be looking. Even the best can be loosely mounted or poorly caste.

    If it's going out of tune every number after all the things you have checked it's the tuners.
     
    Runamok and Stefan like this.
  11. rockinforJesus

    rockinforJesus Country Gent

    Nov 7, 2014
    Upstate New York
    @Stefan
    Have you checked the height of the pickups?
    A pickup’s magnetic field can definitely cause tuning and intonation issues.
    If the pickups are too close to the strings the magnets can pull the strings out of tune.
     
    heinzman and Stefan like this.
  12. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Country Gent

    May 20, 2016
    QLD Australia
    This is true but if you retune after each song, would it pull the guitar out of tune after each number?
     
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  13. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Exactly. Magnets aren’t strong enough to pull it out of tune that fast. But even if it could, his pickups don’t look too close. Usually, too close pickups cause a dull sick tone.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2021
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  14. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Country Gent

    May 20, 2016
    QLD Australia
    If it is constantly going sharp after play it still points to binding in the nut somehow.
     
    Stefan likes this.
  15. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Country Gent

    May 20, 2016
    QLD Australia
    Looking down at the strings in the nut, regardless of the width of the slots there is still a lot of pressure on the right hand side of the slot.

    A little tarnish or some abrasiveness there could still cause it to stick.
     
    Stefan likes this.
  16. mr coffee

    mr coffee Country Gent

    Oct 7, 2009
    Houston
    Bypass the nut. Capo at the first fret, check intonation - cross reference 1st fret capoed, 13th fret fretted, 13th fret harmonic. Then check tuning at other frets and harmonics for accuracy.

    -m
     
    juks, Medium John, audept and 4 others like this.
  17. stevo

    stevo Friend of Fred

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    Yep - that comes from when you tune, it's storing some of that tension behind the nut and then re-distributing it as you play. The vibration of the strings encouraging it to scoot through the slot.
     
    Runamok, Stefan and Gretschmen65 like this.
  18. DennisC

    DennisC Country Gent

    Age:
    38
    May 11, 2017
    Germany
    Hm, a too high nut ... filing and sanding the nut down to half the string in and a liiiiiittle bit more cured my tuning issues with the 5420 - but in case you can only bend up, I found even guitars with crappy nuts being playable and tunable by bending a few times during the tuning. This works both ways, if you only do loosen the tension, doing this during tuning may make it work. But, a flawlessly playable guitar won't need that, and even if the retuning is required in reasonable intervals, it still sucks. And is not necessarily necessary.
     
    Stefan likes this.
  19. Ricochet

    Ricochet Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    Out of curiosity. How high are they now, if pressing down on the 3rd fret?
     
  20. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    Hard to tell- just a hair. But there‘s no buzzing or whatsoever. The distance between top of 1st fret and bottom of the wound strings is 0.2“ and 0.18“ on the blank strings.
     
    Ricochet likes this.
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