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What's Your Experience With Reissue Products That Have Improvements?

Discussion in 'THE Gretsch Discussion Forum' started by ZackyDog, Mar 17, 2017.

What's Your Experience With Reissue Products That Have "Improvements"?

Poll closed Mar 24, 2017.
  1. I wish that they didn't try to fix/reinvent the wheel; it was never broken and sounds worse

    5 vote(s)
    15.6%
  2. Yeah, I like the changes they made to make it more "modern" and/or reliable

    8 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. I have mixed feelings

    16 vote(s)
    50.0%
  4. Other

    3 vote(s)
    9.4%
  1. guitarmike

    guitarmike Gretschie

    201
    Oct 13, 2015
    Montreal
    My vintage Supro amp has the volume and tone knobs situated at the back and bottom of the amp, At floor level..
    My Supro Re-Issue has the knobs on top of the amp.
    Well, that's improvement..
     
    Floo and ZackyDog like this.
  2. MikeSchindler

    MikeSchindler Synchromatic

    510
    Feb 3, 2014
    Pennsylvania
    Staggerlee... I understand your point . But what should the retail price be for an exact reproduction be set at..Id have to be in the know...profit, cost, distribution, advertising, licenses, codes etc are all involved in costs and in today's world I'd bet it's not an easy task to make or sell anything. I have no problem with corporations making money but I do have a problem with companies using cheap materials, terrible build quality , third rate components and poor engineering designs which lead to a lot problems for consumers who pay quite a bit for some of this gear thinking it is something it's not...there is a lot of gear disguised in classic vintage clothing.Then to boot ..they dance this vintage reissue , classic reproduction idea to charge high prices when the product isn't anywhere near what you think it is or what you bought...not to mention the profit percentages.. You nor I really know what profits are generated by this type of business model but I'd bet it's still fairly handsome...now ...not all companies do this ..there is some quality gear out there but your gonna pay for it ..some are priced more competitively and so I have no problem with that...The issue I have are the amps and gear out there that purport to be reissues but they are no where near the items they purport to emulate...and there are quite a few offenders of this out there in the corporate world. If a company is gonna tout the word vintage reissue or reproduction..mean it and put the effort into it...and then charge appropriately. I respect that.
     
    MotorCentaur likes this.
  3. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    I have to agree.
    I hate most of the modern big company guitar amps. And it's not possible to built a real good handwired tube amp for cheap.
     
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  5. Axis39

    Axis39 Country Gent

    Age:
    49
    Jun 2, 2008
    Falmouth, Va
    I'm waiting for this too....
     
  6. englishman

    englishman Friend of Fred

    Age:
    59
    Apr 5, 2014
    Detroit
    I'm curious Axis39, what aspects of the Freddyfingers 2 are you looking forward to?
     
  7. Most likely a new version that does not give into GAS, and no longer is an enabler to others

    i am not suggesting that he by any means is an enabler.
     
  8. Staggerlee

    Staggerlee Country Gent

    Jul 19, 2012
    Twin Cities
    How many guitar gear manufacturer billionaires do you know of? Do you really think these companies have such huge margins and are exploiting the poor musicians out there with subpar products?

    As I said, plenty of small builders that make exact (within reason) reproductions of those classic amps. Why not look at them?

    The big guitar gear companies have figured out that to compete they need to change low prices and sell amps that work but that aRe not some gear snobs dream. Plenty of makers out there with much higher prices but you don't hear any of them driving Ferraris and spending weekends at the Playboy Mansion. Must not be very profitable!
     
  9. Floo

    Floo Synchromatic

    907
    Dec 16, 2012
    Elmshorn, Germany
    The questions here are: "what do you think is good?" and "what is cheap for you?" - cheap and good value are two different things. But if you are handy with a soldering iron and woodworking tools, you can have a slightly modified Princeton Reverb for less than 800,-€. An economy straight-in-the-face Marshall 1958/18Watt-clone might even be somewhat cheaper.
     
    ZackyDog likes this.
  10. MikeSchindler

    MikeSchindler Synchromatic

    510
    Feb 3, 2014
    Pennsylvania
    Lol..playboy mansion and billionaires...I never said that....but handsome profits some do make I'm sure...so be it..its business...but no one can say that this doesn't happen in manufacturing...seriOu sly...there are no rip offs out there? I understand and agree with some of your points you make but we will have to agree to disagree on others ...my point is that there are a lot of products that claim to be vintage accurate and they are far from it...some companies are better than others...if you claim vintage correct then make sure the consumer gets that..however great or lousy that vintage piece is...if not a company should say vintage inspired with modern features. I'm ok with companies making all kinds of amps...just tell us what we are buying. Yes I am a vintage snob...vintage reissue is not a truthful term when the item is not the same as its vintage counterpart...people should know this...do a lot of people care ...probably not..I do. Lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    MotorCentaur likes this.
  11. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    That is exactly what I mean. You'll get something much much better if you buy a handbuilt, ptp soldered amp 2nd hand rather than, let's say, a new Blues Junior.
     
  12. wildeman

    wildeman Friend of Fred

    May 10, 2015
    norcal
    Shoot, you can still get the good old stuff if you know what to look for and dont mind a few bumps and bruises. Screenshot_2017-03-19-09-05-49-1.png
     
  13. Tony65x55

    Tony65x55 Friend of Fred

    Age:
    61
    Sep 23, 2011
    The 'Shwa, Ontario, Canada
    Some reissues are great, Victoria and Trinity come to mind. Fender's 50's Strats are excellent guitars too. Some "improved versions are great too, Valvetrain and Phaez can occupy this space. Some new stuff is really good too.

    And in some circumstances just about all categories feature some crap, some of it is atrocious.

    I have a silverface Princeton Reverb, a Luckhurst blackface clone PR and a Fender '68 Custom PR. All three are using the same Emi 1258 Legend 12" speaker. The silverface sounds amazing, the Luckhurst is its equal + in every way and the '68 hangs right in there too. Not quite the equal of the PTP amps but still a fabulous amp that oozes PR tone. Fender has a winner in the '68 Custom line-up and while they aren't exactly like the originals, in some ways they improve on them, but that is simply my humble opinion.
     
    Gotone and Robbie like this.
  14. Robbie

    Robbie Country Gent

    I agree with your humble opinion on the 68's my friend, based solely on my experience with my 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb. I can't wait to take a peek at the Luckhurst.
     
  15. Henry

    Henry Friend of Fred

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    Of the hand built amps I am aware Of, they are either Really, really expensive, or the person making them does it on the side and robably doesn't make much profit at all. Often I see both.
     
  16. slimwilson

    slimwilson Synchromatic

    Age:
    28
    551
    Dec 22, 2015
    Arlington, Tx
    This is all my opinion how I see it: my 1960 "reissue" 6120 is an absolute gem of a guitar. No complaints whatsoever, but I have no basis of comparison to an original. The closest I have gotten to an original is seeing an original 1959 6120 in person. I didn't play it or anything. All I can go by is what I have read. Seems like the RI is just like the original, sans binding rot. I don't know, I'll get back to y'all in 30 years on that.

    My 57/58 "reissue" Les Paul is another gem. It's not a real reissue, being that it's a Traditional model with a couple of cosmetic upgrades. Has the neck of a 58, with 57 Classic humbuckers. Again, absolutely no basis for comparison. Not even taking a gander at one in person haha.

    I picked mixed feelings on this because I like aesthetics, but I don't want any kind of modernized Les Paul. I like the 1950s models just fine. However, like with cars, I like the fuel economy of modern engines, but I hate that it seems you need some sort of computer degree to work on them. Car design is a different story.

    That being said, I don't think I have ever wanted a guitar more than I want the brand new "1953" Duo Jet. The decision to pin the bridges on all Jets in 2017 is one of the best manufacturer decisions in a long while
     
    ZackyDog likes this.
  17. GVDobler

    GVDobler Synchromatic

    598
    May 15, 2011
    Las Vegas
    On par with 1963 pricing a new USA factory made Fender Bassman should cost about 2500-3000 bucks today. Not many would pay that.

    Back in 1963 Fender did not make a watered down Bassman for a hundred bucks, but that's what is selling for about a grand today. (Reverse the math)

    Just like Cadillac has to have an entry level car in the $30k range. But if you want an actual Caddy it is about $50-60k.

    Same with guitars and amp. If you want proline stuff, you gotta pay for it. A proline Gretsch and a Blondeshell will set you back about $5-6 gs which, if you work the math back again that equates to about $5-6 hundred bucks, back in the day.

    I don't know what the mystery is. You can put Caddy hubcaps on a Chevy Cruz, but it is still what it is.
     
  18. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Country Gent

    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    I played a Ltd. Edition '59 Reissue Bassman. To my ears, it was anything but "watered down". It had a rich, tube tone---printed circuit board and all.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Tele295

    Tele295 Country Gent

    Jun 4, 2008
    Ventura, CA
    Were Bigsby B3 tailpieces even in production by '53?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Country Gent

    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    As a major improvement over the originals, we refined our pickups to have a wider bridge spacing and slightly higher output at the bridge position, giving you much better string to string and neck to bridge pickup balance.

    :rolleyes:But, you changed the formula and therefore, the magic of the original. I tried your pickup and it sounds different than an original, unfortunately for the worse. The original didn't need any fixing, so please, don't change it when you recreate it. Just duplicate what they did in the old days. One man's meat is another's poison. Try using verbiage like, "We think it is a major improvement...".

    Rant over. I'm glad forums like this exist in my quest for tone and the truth. ;)
     
  21. Stefan

    Stefan Country Gent

    Jan 20, 2016
    Germany
    That's why TV came up with the new Full Fidelity Filtertrons.