What's the deal with these cabs?

Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by Yukimajo, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Yukimajo

    Yukimajo Gretschie

    Age:
    49
    387
    Nov 4, 2018
    Exeter UK
    I'll start by saying that I know nothing about amps apart from guitar goes in one end and noise comes out the other. Saying this I have found these Harley Benton cabinets on Thomann which have 2 x 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speakers (verified by Phil McKnight of the Know Your Gear You Tube Channel). Now these cabinets are selling for $227 and it seems to have some people frothing at the mouth.

    So I guess my question (finally) is, what makes these speakers so special? Why are these cabs such a good deal?
     
  2. jarrodtaylor

    jarrodtaylor Electromatic

    34
    Mar 14, 2019
    Delray Beach, FL
    Gonna take a shot here and say the price. V30’s are going for $149 each on Sweetwater and the Fender 2x12 with the same speakers is $699.
     
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  3. Yukimajo

    Yukimajo Gretschie

    Age:
    49
    387
    Nov 4, 2018
    Exeter UK
    So why are they so expensive and yet not in the HB cab? I am just a tad confused.
     
  4. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    Because Celestion make excellent quality speakers is why and V30 is one the best selling speaker models of all time. They are my speaker of choice for the amps I like.

    See here
    https://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/

    I'm sceptical about this HB deal though - 2 x V30s are worth more than what the cabs costs.
    And the cab looks well made also.
    If it has real Celestion V30s it's a fabulous deal imo :)
     
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  5. Dave-B

    Dave-B Synchromatic

    990
    May 23, 2016
    Scotland
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  6. NJDevil

    NJDevil Gretschie

    471
    Jul 9, 2014
    Commack, NY
    The easiest answer is that Fender has the name everyone knows, mass produces, eats a lot of inventory cost because mass production and then requires a higher price point to reach a predefined profit margin.......Kind of a vicious cycle.

    However, the limits of my technical capacity are limited to use cable, connect to guitar, then connect to amp. So I don't know if the components are the same.
     
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  7. loudnlousy

    loudnlousy Friend of Fred

    Age:
    53
    Oct 18, 2015
    Hildesheim, Germany
    Sounds like a good deal. Maybe they got a good discout on them because they bought these Chinese models on a wholesale scale.

    I cannot judge on these because my Vintage 30ies are all still UK made.
     
  8. jarrodtaylor

    jarrodtaylor Electromatic

    34
    Mar 14, 2019
    Delray Beach, FL
    Some quick Googling is showing they’re using b stock speakers.
     
  9. Dave-B

    Dave-B Synchromatic

    990
    May 23, 2016
    Scotland
    Where did you read that?
     
  10. markeebee

    markeebee Country Gent

    I've got one of the 2x12 cabs. Bought it second hand for 70 quid. It's good. Slightly slapdash tolex, MDF cabinet, but 70 quid is less than the price of a single used V30.
     
  11. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    Celestion V30s are probably the most popular professional guitar loudspeakers out there, and have been made in China for more than a decade now. Everyone knows the profit margins...

    Thomann is a big mover which can negotiate impressive bulk prices. Also I suspect the Harley Benton factory is just round the corner of the Celestion premises. :)

    B-stock? I don’t buy it for a minute. Not at that volume(sorry).

    I did buy a HB. The Celestions are real. The cab is solid. The price is insane, but so is the world.
     
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  12. jarrodtaylor

    jarrodtaylor Electromatic

    34
    Mar 14, 2019
    Delray Beach, FL
    Here’s someone who took the back off to check; https://masters-of-music.com/quick-review-harley-benton-g212-vintage-cabinet-with-celestion-v30s/

    B stock doesn’t necessarily mean bad. Could be a cosmetic blemish, could have been a demo unit they sent to reviewers and then later sold, could’ve had a misprint on a label, all kinds of things. I bought a floor model sofa from Crate and Barrel for $400 that’s been good for years now.

    Quick edit: Even *if* they are using b stock speakers, they probably do their own quality control so they don’t get a ton of returns.
     
  13. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    I understand what B-stock is. Dude concludes the speakers are, cause both have a scratched up label? I don’t think that will hold up in court.
     
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  14. swivel

    swivel Synchromatic

    784
    May 13, 2018
    PNW
    Harley Benton has cheap guitars that are pretty good too. Hard to figure that price but "sold out" anyway! I imagine if you buy 500 V30's they are pretty damn cheap. When you think about it, why is a ceramic V30 any more than a ceramic Weber Signature? etc? I mean the same components more or less have to be used. you are paying for the V30 name at $149 that probably costs Celestion $25 net.
     
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  15. jarrodtaylor

    jarrodtaylor Electromatic

    34
    Mar 14, 2019
    Delray Beach, FL
    It’s just an internet theory, I have no hard evidence.

    Connecting some dots here...

    Thomann sells tons of equipment, so they probably get some of the best wholesale prices from manufacturers. Their own retail price for the V30s is $118, or $236 for a pair.

    Their house brand (Harley Benton) G212 Vintage cab is $188 (https://m.thomannmusic.com/harley_benton_g212_vintage.htm) — $48 less than the speakers. They could easily sell it for $236 plus the cost of the cab itself and still come in at less than half the price of the competition. That’s just leaving money on the table.

    Something is missing in this equation.

    If they have a few V30s with cosmetic and/or packaging blemishes that they don’t want to sell individually, why not stick those in their house brand cabinets and sell them for a discount?

    Noting that the vertical cab is currently out of stock for the next 8-9 weeks and the other Harley Benton G212 with V30s is “on request”, it looks like they’re just selling them when they have them and not making them in bulk.

    Seems like a great way to move some extra product.
     
  16. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    It's a theory. :)

    Thomann Germany is a big player. Biggest in a EU, and is looking to conquer the market(almost said Ze Wörld but that would be wrong). This has been their number 1 selling 2x12" cab for years. They couldn't possibly move that kind of volume if they were only depending on the availability of b-stock speakers. What business plan would that be?
    My theory is they sell like hotcakes and faster than any container ship from China can re-supply their stock. On the Thomann site it seems it's hardly the only cab or brand that is "currently unavailable" so there's that.

    Interesting to note that I bought mine a decade ago for about $240(same price as the speakers then) and the construction seems to have improved. Mine was front loaded, had no removable back panel, and the logo was simply glued on.
     
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