Teach me on Dynasonics. How deep can poles be?

Discussion in 'The Pickup Place' started by El Marin, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. El Marin

    El Marin Electromatic

    56
    Oct 4, 2018
    Madrid, Spain, EU
    Hi There

    Is my first time with Dynasonics. I got a 6120 KS, the golden one, and I would like to adjust pickups to my will. The guitar came with the bridge pickup poles following the string radius

    Bridge pickup is Ok, I like as it. But I find the neck pickup with too much output. Not really balanced with the neck one. You cannot low the pickup more than it is. Poles now are flat in that pickup. I would like to try giving it the same radius leaving the G and D poles flat and lowering lowE, A and B and HighE as a start.

    I am afraid of lowering poles too much and end with a pole falling into the guitar... a mess... pull out strings, open the guitar, refurbish the pickup and I need the guitar for tonight and three nights in a row.

    By the moment I am using the pickup volume to low it down a bit, but I like more the sound of it full open.

    Bridge pickup is really high so I don't think I could rise it any more...

    Any help, please? Will poles sink into the guitar? Newbie with Dynas...

    This is the guitar, by the way...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Country Gent

    Mar 6, 2014
    Phoenix, AZ
    There is quite a bit of movement available in Dynasonics magnet poles, so don’t worry so much about losing them. If you can’t see the slug tops at all, you might be close to having them slip out the bobbin. You’ll have plenty of room for sinking all of the slugs below the top a few mm, then adjusting each for each string.

    As for heights, check out this thread. It’s for T-Armonds but it generally applies to modern Dynas too.

    http://www.gretsch-talk.com/threads/t-armonds-worth-every-penny.161929
     
  3. tartanphantom

    tartanphantom Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Jul 30, 2008
    Murfreesboro, TN
    It looks like your Dynas are sitting on mounting riser rings. These are not necessary, as the Dyna can be mounted direct to the top of the guitar using the same mounting screw holes. The riser ring elevates the entire pickup, which is often needed on the Bridge pickup, but not on the neck position.

    Before you go messing with the pole height, remove the mounting ring from underneath the neck pickup. This will lose about 2mm in height as a start. After that, you can adjust the pole pieces as needed.

    Very nice guitar/amp combination you have there!
     
    BorderRadio likes this.
  4. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Country Gent

    Mar 6, 2014
    Phoenix, AZ
    Good catch, didn’t see the risers until I saw the full resolution pic. So, revising the first comment—adjust shims first before poles! That said, Marin if you are pressed for time, moving the poles down will get you there in a pinch.
     
  5. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Country Gent

    Jan 19, 2012
    Maldon UK
    You can rotate the neck Dyna through 180 degrees, which moves the poles 1/2" towards the bridge. TV Jones reccommends this, and although it may look like a small adjustment, it makes quite a difference to the tone.
     
    Chmason85 likes this.
  6. HypotenusLuvTriangle

    HypotenusLuvTriangle Country Gent

    Oct 27, 2010
    Whittier, Ca
    The best thing you can do with your Dynasonics is remove them, throw them in the trash or sell them, and put in some TV Jones Magnatrons.
     
  7. El Marin

    El Marin Electromatic

    56
    Oct 4, 2018
    Madrid, Spain, EU
    OK, thanks all of you for the advice

    I will go step by step... first will flip them 180º, then, if not happy will take the riser out, then will play with the poles high... if not... save for a T-armond ( a friend of mine has T-armonds and he offered me try his guitar)

    I searched how a Dynasonic is built and I think I have more or less 5 or 7 milimeters to play with safety. Maybe is really too much...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. tartanphantom

    tartanphantom Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Jul 30, 2008
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Yes. There is usually plenty of pole adjustment travel on Dynasonics.

    Another tip-- Dynasonics are notorious for squealing at high volume. This is due to vibration of the adjustment mechanisms underneath the pickups. One thing you can do to minimize this is to take a firm elastic band like an elastic hair band or a thick rubber band and weave it in and around the various poles and adjustment screws. This will keep vibration and rattle to a minimum, and prevent or eliminate squealing. BUT... ONLY do this AFTER you have your poles adjusted to your preferred height, as adding the rubber band will inhibit further adjustment, unless you remove it later.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    Chmason85 likes this.
  9. Byron

    Byron Gretschie

    492
    Sep 4, 2009
    uk
    Yeah, probably try without the riser shim. I get frustrated with mine...and I play through a Supro too. What model is in the photo?
    Hope you find the sound yourey looking for, let us know how you get on. Im evil...I prefer GFS surf 90s but they aren't that similar to dynas even though GFS say they are
     
  10. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Country Gent

    Jan 19, 2012
    Maldon UK
    The shell casing on a neck T Armond is not as tall as a regular Dyna, which puts the body and the poles further from the strings.
     
  11. El Marin

    El Marin Electromatic

    56
    Oct 4, 2018
    Madrid, Spain, EU
    I really don't know. Is not mine. I borrow it from a friend just to try it. It was the only pic I had of the guitar :( I Like but is quite similar to my second amp

    I play trough a Marshall JCM900 (I set it clean, yes, a clean Marshall :D) or a 20W Champ with 6L6 (or 6V6 sometimes)
     
    Chmason85 likes this.
  12. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Synchromatic

    729
    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    I don't have real Dynasonics, but I have DeArmond 2000’s in my 5129 which are kinda the same.
    I actually brought the poles up a teeny bit on my neck pick up. It’s definitely a brighter twangier tone than my gretsch with tv classics. I love the middle position on this thing with the neck pickup volume turned down just a hair. It’s that Gretsch sound for sure.
    I flip it to the bridge on the punkier songs and on guitar solos.
    If it were me, i’d try guitar volume settings, adjusting amp tone knobs, before moving pickups around.
     
    Chmason85 likes this.
  13. TV the Wired Turtle

    TV the Wired Turtle Gretschified

    Jul 25, 2009
    so cal
    2000's are called by some "Diet-DeArmond" . Similar bright, percussive twangy sound, but a lot less of the fat and "oomph" of a classic DeArmond pickup.

    spec on 2000's:
    The 2000 uses only 1/4 inch Alnico 5 pole pieces in the bobbin.
    DC resistance: 8.85K Inductance: 3.55 Henries 44 gage magnet wire

    2k's
    "The 2K is a slug P-90 but the slugs are steel not mags. The poles extend through the bobbin where they are trapped between a pair of like pole Alnico 5 bar magnets. The bobbin is surrounded by a thin steel U channel from below the bobbin to enhance the pickups inductance."

    DC resistance: 7.4K Inductance: 6 Henries 43 gauge magnet wire

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  14. TV the Wired Turtle

    TV the Wired Turtle Gretschified

    Jul 25, 2009
    so cal
    I've owned all varieties of the deArmond Rowe pickups, and I'm not a big fan of the stock gretsch dynas.. there is too much bass and and too much treble w a lack of mids focus. More or less they are not balanced very well and Chet Atkins didnt like them either, although I think his best tone was the early yrs w them haha. Flipping the neck pickup around is what I had to do even w my T-armonds on the 25.5 Scale Falcon. That was the magic move for my tastes on that guitar. I ended up pulling the slugs down very low on the neck and using rubber shims underneath to get the balance of the pickup body where I needed it then adjusted the individual mag slugs.

    Here's the physical difference in flipping the pickup over, leaner lows and a shift in harmonic content as well.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    Chmason85 likes this.
  15. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Country Gent

    Jan 19, 2012
    Maldon UK
    On a Jet the neck casing is narrower than a Filtertron case and it's mounted right up to the end of the fretboad, pushing the poles further towards the headstock. Flipping the pickup to reduce the wooliness seems par for the course.

    The 1 meg volume pot is another way to go too. I've got one waiting to go in. To be fair on a Blackface style amp the T-Armonds are bright enough, but a mid based Tweed can seem overly thick, which doesn't happen with regular Dynas. There's definitely more of a mid growl in the TAs.
     
  16. El Marin

    El Marin Electromatic

    56
    Oct 4, 2018
    Madrid, Spain, EU
    Well... two nights so far and tonight is the last one

    First night I used my 20W Tweed Champ clone with 6L6 and I didn't like much.

    That's it. The way the guitar drives the amp is really dirty. The sound is thick and surprisingly bassy. So, let's swap it for the Marshall. Much better

    Now I discovered the use of the two pickup volumes and the master volume. Rolling down about two points the neck pickup volume I get what I want. I have NEVER EVER used the volume pot in any guitar, Fender or Gibsons, in 35 years. Always on 10

    Tonight last gig in a row and I am loving the guitar more and more. Next week will start with flipping pickup 180º and seeing what happens.


    Nice tip. Sure that I will do it

    I am surprised about the squealing, I was expecting much more. I had a Guild X-165 and an Ibanez Pat Metheny and they are much prone to feedback than this guitar. Bracing matters, I think The Guild had a small tone post like a violin, the Ibanez a small block beneath the bridge and this Gretsch has Trestle bracing. I can use my 100W Marshall quite near and get only feedback if I want to.
     
    BorderRadio, Henry and calebaaron666 like this.
  17. El Marin

    El Marin Electromatic

    56
    Oct 4, 2018
    Madrid, Spain, EU
    Hi. I'm back

    FIRST: This Grestch has a Tone post below the bridge, so null said about trestle or whatever

    SECOND: I flipped 180º the neck pickup. It is not much, about 7 mm, but is noticeable. Subtle but noticeable and better. In the right way.

    This is the original position.

    [​IMG]

    This is flipped 180º. I had care enough and keeped the riser in it's original position so it can fit the guitar curve

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I cannot pull out the risers as the pickup would be touching the guitar in the middle and floating at the screws due the top curve. The pickup is straight and the riser has been sanded to fit

    [​IMG]

    Well. Next step is going to the rehearsal room, test it with my amp and band and tweak the poles to a good point.

    I am not liking the guitar without the pickguard

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. hcsterg

    hcsterg Country Gent

    Feb 13, 2012
    France
    Yes, at least 7mm when the poles are flush to the bobbin : you have a good margin... These long screws are an issue when installing the Dynasonics in a solidbody : I need to short these screws to enter them in the thichness.

    A+!
     
  19. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Country Gent

    Jan 19, 2012
    Maldon UK
    TV Jones supplies a foam rubber spacer that compresses quite easily. It would squash down to drop the pickup onto the body of the guitar, but still fill the gaps under the ends of pickup.
    https://tvjones.com/collections/hardware/products/dearmond-mount-shims

    One of the main complaints with Dynasonics is a bridge that sounds weak compared with the neck. TV Jones addresses that with a hotter bridge pickup. The shorter screws and magnets make the pickups less prone to squealing, and they are much less hummy than Dynas. They seem quite middy in comparison to a Dyna, and work best with a mid scooped amp, or one with a mid control.
     
  20. benjwri

    benjwri Country Gent

    Age:
    80
    Oct 27, 2011
    Central ON Can
    A thick mouse pad works well also...if you can find one LOL