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Discussion in 'Ampage Area' started by Wulfgang, Jan 7, 2018.
Man, Solid State sure ain't what it used to be...
I wish some people would actually read and try to understand what other people's opinions are. Dear Aymara, modeling technology may be better now than it's ever been. But it's too expensive with too little use for me PERSONALLY. NuTube seems to be marketing only (OpAmps making the sound like in normal solid state TSs).
If you like it, go for it. If it gets affordable and can provide a replacement for my Vibroverb at 50% of the cost with 100% of the fun and sound, ok. As long as there is no such thing, I don't care. And I know that even my gear (I get good reactions for my personal sound) will sound like sheepturd when played by the guy I mentioned before with the Jeff Beck Strat. So analogue does not provide good tone by just being non-digital. Tone is in the fingers, everything else should be but a bit of spice to it. From my very own and subjective point of view.
When talking about hardware, yes, as expensive as a good amp or even more.
But BIAS FX for iPad costs only 10 bucks in discount and 20 full price. And for late evening / night jamming and composing with headphones and a solid body it's not only unbeatable, but also sounds pretty good. And nobody hears me ... even if TV was so boring, that my wife fell asleep
And the desktop versions, together less than 200 bucks, are definitely good enough for home recording.
But that doesn't mean, I use my Blackstar anymore
But micing anything in an apartment with crying childs of neighbours and a bus stop nearby ... forget it. Here good amp sims are a nice solution. Furthermore my Blackstar only has one sound, but I like to play different stuff, where I would "require" different amps, for which I have no room. I'm a bedroom player / composer.
Conclusion: Different tech for different purposes, at least in my case.
The same applies to the digital stuff. When I look into the tone cloud of that BIAS stuff and hear what a crap some of the so called featured artists present ... OMG. You need to do your homework to master your stuff, be it the instrument or equipment, no matter which kind you use.
I find myself in the odd position of being 100% in favour of new technology, but 100% preferring music that was recorded in crappy basements on crappy gear by blokes with crappy hygiene.
Genuinely, I listen to a lot of new gear and a lot of expensive amps, and I always think "can't you make it sound a bit more crappy?".
Soul is the word I'm looking for, I think.
Fun is the other word I'm looking for.
I understand the convenience of amp modelers and sims and suchlike, but they'll never get me grinning like a nutty squirrel in the same way that the visceral rush of wind from an overstressed speaker cab does.
Technology, whether tubes or digital, old or new, is just a means. The end/purpose is music and self expression. The technology doesn't matter as long
Referring to old technology as the "real thing" is silly. What matters is the music. If one form of technology helps you make music, use it. It doesn't matter whether it is old or new, analog or digital.
The real thing is the idea in the musician's head. If Eddie Cochrane were at his peak in 2010s instead of the 1950s, I doubt he would using the same equipment as he did then. He was a tinkerer and would not have settled for 60 year old technology simply because that's what was used on some recording. Many other great guitarists and musicians, and true innovators like Les Paul and Chet Atkins, also never settled for the "real thing" they heard on some old recording. To them the "real thing" is the sound in their brains, not one some recording two or three generations past.
The irony, is that the the dividing line between expensive and crappy is not old or new technology. The Elektra amp and the Kemper are on opposite ends of the technology spectrum, but they are both expensive - and the same is true on the "crappy" end.
Well put. That is exactly right.
This post for the win!
You must have miss read my post Henry.
I didn't call old technology the real thing. What I was saying is that all the companies that create amp models & analog processing models are always modeling the old classic gear - never hardly ever creating anything new, just digital emulations of the real thing (something that is already there in a hardware version).
It gets kind of tiring after awhile. Countless versions of Vox, Fender, Marshall amps, and 1176 compressors & Lexicon, DBX processors, etc.
And all the while claiming that their version sounds more like the real thing. Well I was just pointing out that the real thing is always a hardware box that's been around for ages and it just happens to be old technology which is better in it's original state....
My apologies if I misunderstood. I think that is the inherent tension with new products - people want something different, but they also want something that is familiar or at least relatable/understandable.
So when we have someone presenting new products (and not even necessarily new tech), they need to relate it to something familiar as a point of reference. A new amp maker will describe their new amp to something that people understand - Fender, Vox, etc. But once people are familiar with that brand or product, they don't have to use that crutch anymore. Mesa started by juicing Fenders, now Mesa is reference sound (well, at least for high distortion).
It may be that 30 years from now, a new product will come out that will "sound just like a Kemper, using real vacuum tubes!"
That is absolutely true for the Kemper, which has only one purpose, to sample existing amps, so you are able to have different amps in one "box".
Not astonishing because many guitarists are exactly of that kind, they want to sound like their own guitar heros. How often have I read about Setzer's or Duffy's tone, how many Les Paul players change their wiring to that of Jimmy Page? How many guitarists try to develop their own tone and playing style?
But again ... times are changing. It was a company called Ignite Amps, who developed a completely new amp sim called the Emissary, a Metal amp plugin for DAWs, that was not based on an existing hardware amp and it was so successful, not only because it is still free, that they developed this amp as a hardware tube amp, that is nowadays available. Another example is BIAS, that allows you to tweak amps to your liking, so you would be able to create an amp, that doesn't exist as hardware. A few people do exactly that, but I fear, that are only young Metal guitarists and they are a minority.
It's the same as it always was, the number of creative innovators is limited and it are usually (not always) pretty young pioneers, who try something new. And you need to open your eyes to find them, because usally these "innovators" don't compose music for the masses
The fact that this discussion would possibly last forever demonstrates how both old-school and modern approaches can give you great tones. If the modern/digital solutions were so crappy, nobody would play them. It is really simple as that, in my opinion.
Sometimes people forget that most of the players using digital stuff come from tube amps and/or still use and love them.
I really love my tube amps (I have 3) but sometimes I definitely prefer solid state amps for some things or digital emulations for other things. I'm an old-school kind of guy in terms of musical taste, but I always look for different solutions in order to get what I need, especially during these last years.
Anyway... I'm playing a lot with the bass recently and, from what I understood until now, the "tube thing" is not so big among bass players, they tend to use huge wattage SS amps or digital emulations for the most part.
Jeez. Not in my lifetime I hope.
I'm seventy years of age next August.
Between my Strat and two Teles, and my Twin Reverb and my CDR I can get almost any sound I want to get. Let's not forget my G6120. Funnily it seems to come alive coupled with my Deluxe 410.
A nice tape echo would be appreciated. But, I'm allowed to dream.
I don't really want to be any younger. Our generation probably had the best of the best when it comes down to amplified instruments with their basic but beautiful sounds. What's it gonna be like in ten years?
Betcha there'll be a very active market for old analog instruments. And for my money instruments include amplifiers.
Yes, but the time will come, when kids will look as if you are an alien, when you carry several tube amps on stage ... e.g. ask today's kids, what a Walkman was
Fantastic, no life insurance needed, my wife just needs to sell my guitars to pay my burial
Today's kids still use and love tube amps, though. Most of them are lighter, with more options and more compact in size but still tube amps. I'm not sure that the future will be all about digital modeling, really. Last generation SS amps are extremely powerful, loud and easy to use and carry, so....
I think progress is affecting all the amp categories, especially the digital emulation during the last 2/3 years.
I remember those "film will never die" statements in photography and what happened? Try to find a film developer nowadays ... good luck
Yes, and many so called tube amps of today like my Blackstar are hybrids.
I like, but I'm not sure.
I think it'll be a few years before the SS revolution would be the way to go.
Tubes Rule. At least in my mind.
I think you're overlooking how conservative guitar players are.
Think of the many advances there have been in guitar technology over the years, and yet the Telecaster still outsells the Variax about 100,000 to 1.