New T-Armond Day

Discussion in 'The Pickup Place' started by calebaaron666, May 16, 2019.

  1. jfassett

    jfassett Gretschie

    344
    Dec 9, 2017
    Tucson
    Very good! I went with the P-90 in the bridge mostly because the output is much higher than the blacktop filtertron I had there.
     
  2. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    I bet! The classic+ is a little stronger than the typical filtertron, but even so, the neck T-Armond eats the classic+’s lunch!
     
    ruger9 and jfassett like this.
  3. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    Once I got rid of the stock 47 cap in my Pro Jet and used a 22 and now an 11 I don't have to boost the top end on the amp. The T-armonds can be very bright with a 500K pot and the right cap. To try it out just clip the cap and take a listen to how much cleaner the pickups are and then try different caps starting with an 11 then a 22 and 33, etc. Some guys just bypass the cap all together. Give it a try - I was amazed at the difference a few dollars can make.
     
    calebaaron666 and Ricochet like this.
  4. Ricochet

    Ricochet Gretschified

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    If you think about it, it's ridiculous how a guitar's cheapest part(apart from maybe a screw or washer), can make that much of a difference.
     
    pmac11, Gretschtim1 and new6659 like this.
  5. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    Absolutely! I was ready to give up on my T-Armond pickups. They sounded muddy and nothing at all like the recordings I've heard of them in action. Over the years I've changed pots and pickups but I always would use the caps over again and up until this adventure it worked out. The Chinese cap that was in my Pro Jet was an out of tolerance 47 (more like a 56-60). Since that's what came with the guitar along with the Black Tops I assumed that's just how those pickups sounded so I swapped them out for T-Armonds. The minute I clipped that cap out of the circuit the guitar and pickups came to life. Boy I sure learned a lession. Now I'm thinking that when I put Filtertrons in my 5420 a few years ago I remember being under whelmed with them - they sounded a bit dark to me. I bet a cap changed would have fixed that too. I sold the 5420 when I got my Country Gent and the TV Jones pickups in that guitar sound awesome. Next time I change pickups in one of my guitars i'll buy some caps and listen to see what works best with those pickups.
     
    calebaaron666, new6659 and Ricochet like this.
  6. Ricochet

    Ricochet Gretschified

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    There's a reason I favour Hotrod wiring. Think of EVH what you want, but he was onto it 30 years ago and alluded to as much in interviews. If you really want to know what a pickup sounds like, wire it up straight to the output. You can always add crap(sorry functionality) later.
     
    blueruins and audept like this.
  7. audept

    audept Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Age:
    71
    Dec 1, 2010
    Sydney, Australia
    Absolutely agree from experience. Get rid of every element in a circuit that doesn't need to be there and you can achieve a more phase-coherent and undistorted true version of the original source.
     
    Ricochet likes this.
  8. Byron

    Byron Synchromatic

    573
    Sep 4, 2009
    uk
    Could someone point me to the cap that robs the guitar of the treble? Are you suggesting that it can just be removed and the guitar will sound brighter, or is it nessessary to replace the cap?

    Really value your advice here
     
    calebaaron666 likes this.
  9. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    I recently did this mod to two of my guitars. Access the tone pot, clip and disconnect the capacitor, and you’ve just rendered the tone pot inert. I did it for the basic reasoning that I never used the tone knob, but the result was a stronger/brighter signal from my pickups.
     
    Ricochet and audept like this.
  10. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    I'll definitely need a Power'Tron for the bridge then... cool....

    Eh, I'm not disagreeing at all, but it's all a formula. for example, I prefer the sound of the SSLVO over the Hot Rod, and the only real difference in the capacitance loading from the wiring harness, so I put a 250K pot in my Hot Rod to get closer to that.

    It's funny, when I first read about capacitance loading, it was about pedalboards and "tone suck". So I got into the whole buffer thing, became obsessed with making sure my signal was always buffered. As time went on, I realized it's just one ingredient in a recipe... depending on what tone you're after, capacitance loading can be a good thing... the RE-301 was designed for mic signals, not guitar signals. But Brian Setzer discovered it can do something magical when you turn it up and push a blond bassman with it.... BUT you also need a LONG cord to help balance the impedance mismatch... all a recipe. He found HIS recipe.
     
  11. Ricochet

    Ricochet Gretschified

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    Absolutely it’s a formula!
    Except 30-35 years ago, who outside Bill Lawrence had ever heard of capacitance load, let alone in relation to pickups?
    It’s even more remarkable EVH just used his ears and knew what he was hearing but maybe couldn’t explain the math/physics behind it.
    I’ve seen the whole capacitance load thing dismissed as rubbish for 2 decades and EVH as some kinda fantasist who likes to make up stories.
     
    ruger9 likes this.
  12. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    Well, I think it's been confirmed EVH liked to make up stories... from what I understand the whole "hot-rodded Marshall with an extra tube" was BS... all he did was use a Variac to drop the voltage a little and get more distortion. But he and Billy Gibbons always like threading yarns...

    aaa.jpg
     
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  13. National19

    National19 Country Gent

    Jan 4, 2014
    Ottawa Canada
    I did the same thing a few years ago on my RHH. Best decision I have made with my guitar. D72FDA24-3BFE-4870-8BE2-2BC4F6F63F93.jpeg
     
    ruger9 and calebaaron666 like this.
  14. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    Gorgeous!! Looks like a way nicer version of mine!
    How do yours balance?
     
  15. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    I use tone pots but the caps can be changed to allow more treble to pass through to the output jack. Every guitar is different. In the case of my Jet with T-Armonds I wasn't hearing that treble sound like on early British recordings by The Beatles, The Animals, etc. I clipped out the cap on the tone pot and realized that the cap that was in the guitar was killing all that top end. So I started trying caps with different values. The 47 that was in there was too dark. So I worked my way downward to a 33, then a 22. I finally settled on an 11. Now if I leave the tone knob wide open I can get that bright top end I was looking for. I also realized that the sweep on the tone pot was more gradual. I can actually back it down 50-60% and still have a smoother top end without getting muddy. I say buy yourself some caps of different values and try it out for yourself. I've also found out that value of the cap is more important than the material the cap is made out of. The only thing about the more expensive caps is that their values are more consistent then on cheaper caps.
     
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  16. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    Oh it's not rubbish at all - you are correct. capacitance miss match can also make a great microphone sound like crap. I use George L guitar cables. You can really hear a difference with an amp like an AC 30 and a old Fender with the presence control.
    I have other guitar cables that roll off some high end when I feel like the George L cable is too bright for certain things. I've known it for years and most folks that record at my place can't even hear the difference - go figure.
     
  17. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    Another picture, just because...
    678D610E-78D9-4CD2-ACB8-48E91FBD7F64.jpeg
     
    Outlaw, new6659, National19 and 3 others like this.
  18. Uncle Daddy

    Uncle Daddy Friend of Fred

    Jan 19, 2012
    Maldon UK
    I was under the impression that the cap value made no difference when the pot is wide open.
     
    ruger9 likes this.
  19. new6659

    new6659 Gretschie

    370
    Dec 10, 2018
    Southwestern Ontario
    Interested to hear opinions on that
     
  20. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    NJ
    This is correct. The value of the POT matters (unless it's a no-load), but the cap doesn't if the pot is wide open.

    Keeping in mind you will ALWAYS have people who disagree, that is the most widely-held opinion. Unless the pot is not a no-load, technically even wide open the cap is still connected to the circuit. Perhaps those with dog ears can hear it...
     
    Uncle Daddy likes this.
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