Mud Switch replacement.

Discussion in 'THE Gretsch Discussion Forum' started by Otisorange, May 13, 2019.

  1. Otisorange

    Otisorange Electromatic

    88
    Mar 20, 2015
    Buxton
    Just bought this 1962 Tennessean. In very good nick and sounds so good. However, the mud switch is too dark ( on both settings).
    It’s unusable. I had a 2013 6119 HT and used the brighter of the roll offs permanently.
    My question is, what can I do to give me a mud switch that I can use? Do I get a replacement switch or just different value capacitors or what?
    I have little knowledge in this area and any advice is welcome. 897D22A1-D4B2-4547-9E03-CD9A3E797761.jpeg
     
    new6659 likes this.
  2. JHowdy

    JHowdy Country Gent

    Age:
    53
    Nov 16, 2013
    Finland
    You need to change the capacitor values. They're soldered on the switch terminals, so you'll have to remove the switch to do the job. Probably nothing wrong with the switch itself, if you get any change to the tone when using it.
     
    j.s.c likes this.
  3. Otisorange

    Otisorange Electromatic

    88
    Mar 20, 2015
    Buxton
    Thank you. That makes sense.
     
    JHowdy likes this.
  4. tartanphantom

    tartanphantom Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Jul 30, 2008
    Murfreesboro, TN
    FYI--Modern values are .012uf (more mud) and .0039uf (a little mud).

    For a 1962 model, the existing values are most likely .1uf (LOTS of mud) and .05uf (not quite as much mud, but still dark)-- these are quite dark in tone compared to modern Gretsch guitars, and many folks find them unusable.

    Like yourself, I find the modern tone cap values to be highly serviceable. The modern cap values are available direct from TV Jones.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
    Ricochet, j.s.c and JHowdy like this.
  5. T Bone

    T Bone Country Gent

    Guess where the term "mud switch" came from. I love my modern mud switches on my 3 Pro Lines, very glad I didn't get a vintage one before, I would have hated them like so many others do.
     
  6. JHowdy

    JHowdy Country Gent

    Age:
    53
    Nov 16, 2013
    Finland
    I too had to change the capacitor values in my 2003 Anniversary, the originals were useless to me. Just don't recall the values that I chose, but I've got the data somewhere I guess :). I reckon I went with or close to those TVJ recommended values.
     
  7. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    I’ll add my voice to the chorus, put in caps of the modern values and call it good. With the mudd switch centered, it’s a perfect no-load device. The 0.012uf and 0.0039 caps are very usable values.

    About 18 months ago, I set off on a Holy Grail quest to build the ultimate mudd switch circuit. I experimented with cap values and even bridge circuits that mimicked a tone pot. My experiments were interrupted by other events and I had to put it on the back burner. About that same time, a G6119-62T I had on order arrived and as soon as I heard that, I knew that the Holy Grail lay in my hands. Gretsch/Fender had tamed the mudd switch and made it into a truly brilliant device.

    However, I did learn from my quest. The Rabbit of Caerbannog was easily dispatched because I had the foresight to bring along a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, the Knights Who Say Ni were but a minor irritant, but being taunted by French Soldiers was the worst of it. Don’t get downwind of those guys. :)
     
    new6659, section2 and Ricochet like this.
  8. section2

    section2 Synchromatic

    784
    Dec 21, 2016
    Toronto
    "The person who chose the original cap values has been sacked."
     
    drmilktruck likes this.
  9. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    Those cap values were chosen in the late fifties. I think he’s probably retired long ago.
     
  10. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Gretschified

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    I agree that's what I did with my last Eman build. Also adding a treble bleed.
     
  11. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Gretschified

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    He was referencing the beginning of the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail, where the people who did the credits are sacked repeatedly. Playing up your use of the term Holy Grail in your tone quest.
     
  12. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    I had forgotten that, but then again, it’s been a challenging week, and it’s only Tuesday. :)
     
    Waxhead likes this.
  13. Otisorange

    Otisorange Electromatic

    88
    Mar 20, 2015
    Buxton
    Now that’s everything I need right there. Thank you very much sir.
     
    tartanphantom likes this.
  14. dmunson

    dmunson Electromatic

    35
    Dec 19, 2015
    Charlotte, NC
    I found this a chance to be creative. My 6120 was great except for that lack of fine tone control. So, I met with a local luthier and worked out a whole new concept. First we changed the master volume to a master tone. Then we modified the mud switch to work as follows:
    Down position activates the master tone, allowing the fine tone adjustment.
    Center position bypasses the master tone, similar to how it was wired originally.
    Up position acts as a complete cutoff, similar to that found on early Country Gents.
    For me, this made the guitar much easier to live with.
    Just my two cents.
     
    Henry likes this.
  15. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    Or Otis ......
    You could do nothing and just don't use the mud switch like most of us.
    Mine has stayed in mid position for years.
    I don't need the mud switch as amp and pedal EQs are more than adequate imo :)
     
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