Looper and drums set

Discussion in 'Technical Side of Things' started by GiorgioG, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. GiorgioG

    GiorgioG Electromatic

    Age:
    46
    15
    Jun 17, 2019
    London
    Hi guys,
    How are you?
    I'm a beginner with guitars, started to learn to play a few months ago, I now have a lovely G5422T and I couldn't be happier :)
    I have a quite cheap Boss Katana 50 amp, that for me is more than enough now.
    What I would like to do is to use a looper to record clean chords progressing and then playback it in a loop a play a "distorted solo" over it.
    I would like to have a drum base at the bottom of it.
    I was starting to think about how to implement it.
    I looked at some pedal that has both looper and drum sets, but, I was thinking that if I connect the pedal to the only input that the Katana 50 have, it will be ok when I play and record the clean base but I guess, when I set the amply to overdrive, it will be going to distort also the drums and the clean playback, so probably it is not a solution for me.
    What could be a feasible solution? Are there pedals can play a drum base, playback a clean guitar play and then overdrive while I play the solo? So I just need one (and the only input) on the amp?

    Thanks for your help

    Giorgio
     
  2. Yukimajo

    Yukimajo Gretschie

    Age:
    49
    386
    Nov 4, 2018
    Exeter UK
    Hi Giorgio

    Your cause could be helped enormously by using a DAW for home recording on your PC. There is a great free one called Cakewalk (https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk). Here is a link to the documentation and user guides http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Tutorial1.1.html. All you would need to get on top of this would be a good Digital Interface box to record through. I would recommend that you look at a 2nd gen Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 which don't cost that much more than a pedal, here it is on the GAK website. What you are using to record your drum track on?

    Oh and congrats on the 5422T!

    I will add a caveat, however, if @audept says anything different, follow his advice!
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  3. GiorgioG

    GiorgioG Electromatic

    Age:
    46
    15
    Jun 17, 2019
    London

    Thank you :)

    I don't record the drum track, I would like to have something that has already sample tracks and I could change the tempo. So for example, chose a rock base or a blues base and then change the tempo.

    I will look at the Scarlet, It looks interesting.
    I have also noticed that the Katan 50 have an AUX input at the back, so maybe I could connect the scarlet to the aux input, to play the drum track.

    Thanks for your help.
     
    Yukimajo likes this.
  4. benjwri

    benjwri Country Gent

    Age:
    81
    Oct 27, 2011
    Central ON Can
    "Ditto" is a pretty good little looper...around $100. A Boss ZOOM G3 offers a lot, effects, drum tracks, looper, for around $300 (ithink)
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  5. Yukimajo

    Yukimajo Gretschie

    Age:
    49
    386
    Nov 4, 2018
    Exeter UK
    As you are not recording a drum track I would recommend getting a copy of Slate Digitals free Drum plug in:
    https://ssd5-free.dl.drumclassroom.net

    It is a bit of a learning curve to get involved with a DAW bit you can have much more freedom when recording your stuff.
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  6. Highroller

    Highroller Synchromatic

    546
    Jun 11, 2015
    Portland, OR
    Yeah, you'll probably need to add a distortion or overdrive pedal to the chain, before the looper, so you can keep running the amp clean. In other words, move the source of your fuzz from the amp to a pedal.

    btw, a pretty good looper (with drum samples) in a standard sized stomp box: Boss RC3 Loop Station. Check it out.
     
    new6659 and GiorgioG like this.
  7. section2

    section2 Country Gent

    Dec 21, 2016
    Toronto
    I don't know about drum loops, but if you want to play clean chords through a looping pedal and then play a distorted solo overtop, one solution would be to plug your guitar into a distortion pedal, then plug the distortion pedal into the looper, then plug the looper into your amp. Leave the distortion pedal turned off when you record your loop, then turn it on when it's time to solo.

    You could also try a multi-effects pedal with a built-in looper, such as the Zoom G5. I believe this would let you record a loop with a clean tone and then solo overtop of it with distortion, but I'm not 100% sure. The G5 doesn't have the most sophisticated looper, but it will let you make basic loops. It doesn't have a built-in drum machine. The G5 also has a USB interface to allow you to record your guitar into your computer. My only complaint about the G5 is that its amp simulations can be very noisy.

    If your amp will let you play through the aux input and the guitar input at the same time, you should be able to plug your phone or computer into the aux input and play drum loops from there.
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  8. GiorgioG

    GiorgioG Electromatic

    Age:
    46
    15
    Jun 17, 2019
    London
    Thanks :)
    So, I connect the distortion pedal to the looper and the looper to the amp. (Amp in clean)
    I start recording the loop with the distortion pedal off.
    When I'm happy with the recorded loop, I start the playback, then I switch on the distortion pedal and I start to play the solo.
    In this way, is the distortion pedal going to affect the looper playback or only the solo playing?
     
  9. Highroller

    Highroller Synchromatic

    546
    Jun 11, 2015
    Portland, OR
    The looper pedal's input is in bypass mode at that point. Your distorted soloing will come thru distorted. The loop playback clean.

    Think of it this way: When you start the loop playback, the source of that signal (the looper itself) is after the distortion pedal. It's got a clear path to the amp - there's no way the distortion pedal can affect it. Meanwhile, the source of the distorted signal (your guitar) is before the distortion pedal, so it will be affected.

    It's all about where your signal begins and what it goes thru before it comes out of your amp.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    section2 and GiorgioG like this.
  10. Scooter127

    Scooter127 Synchromatic

    501
    Feb 25, 2019
    USA
    Since I have to continue to gush about the Fender GT40 I just got (the GT100 and 200 have the same functionality), it has a 4 button control pedal that will do 60 second loops, allowing you to lay down as many overdubs as you want.

    Also, you can play a drum track from your phone to the amp via Bluetooth and dump it on the loop. Edit: This guy plugged his phone into the guitar input for the drums. Makes sense because you can stream music to the amp via Bluetooth and it doesn't run it through the "modeled amp" so you can play along with the music without it being distorted/phased/compressed/reverbed/etc

    This is 4 and 1/2 minutes long and shows how to do it. Bonus - he uses a Gretsch for the rhythm



    I found out the old version of the pedal that sells for $52 on Amazon works every bit the same as the "current" model that sells for $79.99 with the only difference being the labeling on the pedal faceplate - and get this, Fender will send a free magnetic overlay! They don't even charge postage
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    Gregor and GiorgioG like this.
  11. GiorgioG

    GiorgioG Electromatic

    Age:
    46
    15
    Jun 17, 2019
    London
    Great!
    Thanks for sharing!
     
  12. Scooter127

    Scooter127 Synchromatic

    501
    Feb 25, 2019
    USA
    For what it's worth here in the US the GT40 is $279.99, GT100 about $350 and the GT200 about $450 and all of them function exactly the same. The GT40 is missing a few physical knobs but what those knobs do on the 100 and 200 can be adjusted in the digital interface on the amp or...and I'm still boggled by the notion...the phone app.
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  13. Scooter127

    Scooter127 Synchromatic

    501
    Feb 25, 2019
    USA
    Another option is a cheap mixer you can plug into some other kind of amplification like a stereo from the amp's REC OUT/Headphones jack. IIRC I got a cheapo mixer off Amazon for like $20 EDIT: ammoonn AM-228 Ultra Compact Low Noise 8 channel blah blah for $33.99. It's definitely cheap but works well for me for home use.

    I didn't realize that amp also does effects like the Fender I just got. I haven't much looked at amps since 1997.
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  14. swivel

    swivel Synchromatic

    713
    May 13, 2018
    PNW
    Use an OD pedal instead of the Katana overdrive. Record your drum track, play with distortion after that. It will not distort the drum track. I do this all the time with a Ditto; record rhythm clean, record a bass line maybe, record a drum like track slapping the guitar. Then play solo over that with an overdrive, chorus or whatever. Put those devices BEFORE the looper and it doesnt effect the other tracks.
     
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  15. GiorgioG

    GiorgioG Electromatic

    Age:
    46
    15
    Jun 17, 2019
    London
    Thanks to you all!!!!! Now I have a better idea on how things works and what to look for, and of course, the most important thing, keep playing the guitar :)
     
    Yukimajo likes this.
  16. Henry

    Henry Gretschified

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    If you have an iPad a cheap/free solution is to use garageband.
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  17. MotorCentaur

    MotorCentaur Gretschie

    268
    May 11, 2016
    Seattle
    One thing that I don't see anyone has brought up is synchronization.

    It's one thing to play with a drum track, and that can be done in many ways.

    When you want to play a loop AND drums and solo on top....it's more complicated. The loop and drums have to be synchronized electronically, otherwise they will become out of sync very quickly. The loop and drums either have to be on the same machine or program, or one has to be sending a master clock command to the others.

    The boss RC-300 will support 3 simultaneous loops and a "rhythm", and store 99 presets/ .wav files, and more on SD cards, iirc. it's also $560... boss and EHX have many similar loopers..

    The two paths are hardware and software. Hardware, in my experience, has much lower latency issues, while software offers much more adaptability, and you still need i/o and controller hardware and latency can be a real bugger...

    I've been looking for similar capabilities for a while....

    I have Reaper DAW ($60) which is good as protools and open sourced, FL Studio, and recently got Superior Drummer 3 (which sounds great but is quite expensive with all the expansion packs). My laptop struggles with latency for live type situations.... I'd like to get Reaper/ SD3 to clock master a looping pedal, but it gets pretty immobile quickly...
     
    GiorgioG likes this.
  18. I think those Katanas are pretty cool, kind of a hybrid lineage from Boss and Roland.

    They have their own looper feature, no?

    Drum - wise, I’ve relied on an Alesis SR 16 and SR 18 drum machine. The SR 18 sounds better to me, as it has a virtual bass aspect. Just another idea.

    Edit - I mistakenly mentioned a looper feature, confusing the Katana with Boss’ recent acoustic amps...

    I’ve used a lot of loopers. Currently have a Ditto X 2. Dittos are nice. I have an old Line 6 DL-4, which has a 7 second loop function, 14 seconds at half speed/double speed. It has its limitations, but offers a variety of delays, too, which I appreciate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    GiorgioG likes this.
  19. Frank_NH

    Frank_NH Synchromatic

    765
    Mar 25, 2013
    Lebanon, NH
    How about the Digitech Trio plus? It has drums, bass, looper, effects. I have the regular Trio pedal and use it for practicing - it’s really good for that. I play a some backing chords, hit the switch and instantly have a drum/bass backing track. One nice thing about the Trio’s output options is the ability to route the backing track to a clean amp or PA, and your guitar to a separate guitar amp. I use a powered floor monitor for the backing track output, and sounds just like a live band with my guitar routed to my Roland Blues Cube! :)
     
  20. Nolefinity

    Nolefinity Electromatic

    53
    Apr 11, 2012
    Hog Mountain
    Hey everyone and @GiorgioG ... I’m actually the guy in that Perfidia YouTube demo above.

    I agree, the GT 40 is a excellent option because it has a built-in Looper and can let you change the guitar tones like clean and distorted, even if you don’t do what I did in the video which is more complicated (plugging in drum loops right into the guitar jack on the studio pre preset).

    But .... Another set up that has proven to be awesome is ....

    1. Take any amp with effects
    2. Run a line from the headphone out jack into a looper pedal (mine is the digitech Jamman Solo XT)
    3. Run the looper in stereo to a cheap but good pair of studio monitors (some good Presonus ones cost $99)
    4. But actually, I run the headphones out to a Digitech SDrum drum machine that builds great drum tracks automagically, then run that to a Fender ABY pedal, then run that to the Looper in stereo. I can build wide stereo full band songs live by moving loops left and right or center, and the studio monitors play the whole “band” back for me.

    It’s transformed my songwriting and practice ... super fun!
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    Penguin, ishtar and GiorgioG like this.
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