Line Out on a Champ 5F1

Discussion in 'Ampage Area' started by DougWheeler74, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. DougWheeler74

    DougWheeler74 Electromatic

    41
    Jul 10, 2019
    Appleton, Wisconsin
    I have a 5F1 clone. It works well for me and when I record I mic it but the sound guy at church would prefer a line out. Has anyone here modded a Champ 5F1 to add a line out?
     
  2. Andy Fortune

    Andy Fortune Gretschie

    254
    May 24, 2016
    Corning, NY
    You'll need a load box with a DI if you need to mute the speaker. Otherwise, a line out can be added, but you'll still need a speaker simulator or it will sound awful straight into the board.
    Personally, I'd get a Tech21 Blonde or Joyo American Sound and go direct.
     
  3. DougWheeler74

    DougWheeler74 Electromatic

    41
    Jul 10, 2019
    Appleton, Wisconsin

    Would it sound awful due to the amp design or other reason? I had a Super Champ x2 with a line out to run to the board and it sounded ok for what we were doing. Granted, the whole speaker & cabinet dynamics go out the window in that case.
     
  4. Andy Fortune

    Andy Fortune Gretschie

    254
    May 24, 2016
    Corning, NY
    The preamp for the Super Champ X2 is DSP (modeling) and the line out comes after that and before the tube power stage, so it's a completely different animal. A 5F1's sound is very much a combination of tube preamp stage + tube power amp stage + speaker. A line out for the 5F1 would have to have something to mimic the effect of the speaker or the signal to the board will be nothing but an overly bright, harsh, fizzy mess. A load box with a speaker sim and DI would work great.
     
    pmac11 likes this.
  5. Hammerhands

    Hammerhands Country Gent

    Aug 26, 2011
    Winnipeg
    You can get a Weber Micro Mass or Mini mass pretty cheap, try that.
     
  6. DougWheeler74

    DougWheeler74 Electromatic

    41
    Jul 10, 2019
    Appleton, Wisconsin

    That makes sense - thanks for the info.
     
  7. Byron

    Byron Synchromatic

    647
    Sep 4, 2009
    uk
    Well being as it's a church gig, you can't tell the sound guy where to stick his line out. But it is your amp and you play it the way you think best.

    I use the line out of my Vibro Champ XD to record. I know this sounds crazy but I get better results than I do from using mics on the cab. It has a nice Weber speaker upgrade too. Tried many mic options too.

    But for a live gig, I'd want to work out the correct volume myself, easily done at small gigs and at larger gigs, I'm at the mercy of the sound guy and mic
     
  8. wabash slim

    wabash slim Friend of Fred

    Age:
    70
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    You'll never get the same sound by going direct with a tube amp. There's a resonance that works between the speaker and the tubes that transistors just can't duplicate. You might use a Silent Speaker set up ---speaker in a totally sealed box with an internal mike. You can get a decent mix with a solid state amp, tho. Make your life easier(and the sound guy happier). Lots of good, feature filled, small solid state amps out there. I'd prefer tubes and a mike myself, but, even a 5 watt amp might be too much for P&W. The sound guy has far more control over things this way. Monitors (wedges and in-ear), vocal mikes only (how do they deal with the drummer?), and everything goes straight thru the PA. No worries about "volume contests" between the musicians, much less direct sound that he can't control, and fewer complaints about volume from parishioners---and that is an issue. Many of the P&W groups I've worked with often just use pedal rigs without an amp.
     
    blueruins and DougWheeler74 like this.
  9. Lizardkinged

    Lizardkinged Friend of Fred

    Age:
    32
    Oct 5, 2009
    Michigan
    [​IMG]
    This should do it all. But I'd personally tell the sound guy to shove it up is bum.
     
    pmac11 and wabash slim like this.
  10. DougWheeler74

    DougWheeler74 Electromatic

    41
    Jul 10, 2019
    Appleton, Wisconsin
    Just to be clear, the sound guy is great and having been in his position many times I understand what he is responsible for. We usually handle it during sound checks and then during performance by hand signals.

    It's been a long time since my tube amp theory and maintenance days and even at that it wasn't for guitars. I am a curious guy sometimes. :)

    A fun side story: Once while running sound the main act described what they wanted by color. More orange, less blue, etc. I adjusted bass, treble, etc until I figured out what they meant. Later I came across an article in Scientific American magazine about people who experience sound in terms of color. Wish we had had time to talk about it.
     
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