Is The Mud Switch At All Useable?

Discussion in 'THE Gretsch Discussion Forum' started by Dreamtime, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. Dreamtime

    Dreamtime Gretschie

    294
    Dec 14, 2017
    New York
    I have had a White Falcon for a number of years and to this day I still think something is wrong with the tone switch (the "mud switch").

    When I flip it up, the sound is, well, completely mud. I say to myself, "There is no way on Earth that this tone is at all useable for any guitarist in any genre." No way could the guitar come with something so unusable. So I am drawn to the conclusion that my tone switch must be broken.

    I ask: do you find that the tone switch in an up position is complete mud and, perhaps, there really is something wrong with my guitar?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I have the broadway Jade penguin I like the wide open and partial positions, on occasion I will mess with the fully choked on. In the end, I love the mud switch. I may consider different values at some time.
     
    Mudshark and TSims1 like this.
  3. Hammerhands

    Hammerhands Country Gent

    Aug 26, 2011
    Winnipeg
    Turn on the bright switch on your Fender amp.
     
  4. TSims1

    TSims1 Gretschified

    Jun 18, 2013
    Atlanta

    Me too.
     
  5. benjwri

    benjwri Country Gent

    Age:
    81
    Oct 27, 2011
    Central ON Can
    It may not be to your liking but it is definitely usable. Maybe you need to try some other cap values.
     
  6. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    I use the mud switch once every few months - not completely useless imo but also depends on your amps voicing, how useful your EQ dials are and how you set them for mud :)
     
  7. Dreamtime

    Dreamtime Gretschie

    294
    Dec 14, 2017
    New York
    Thanks for the replies.

    So, yes then, it is mud...not a problem with my guitar. What I have found is that single note lines do not sound bad at all, but when I play full chords...MUD! I guess a jazz player soloing would utilize the switch in the up position. I'm no jazz player so I am always middle position. Just weird that the guitar is released with something that really is not liked or utilized by the majority of the buyers of these guitars.
     
  8. loudnlousy

    loudnlousy Friend of Fred

    Age:
    53
    Oct 18, 2015
    Hildesheim, Germany
    I like my mudswitch.
    You got to experiment with it a bit.
     
    MKunie, TSims1 and Waxhead like this.
  9. stevo

    stevo Country Gent

    May 1, 2012
    Atlanta
    It would be welcomed if you were playing into a more strident amp with excessive high end output. But for me, that is never the case. So I modified the tone caps to get a slight roll off of highs and then a bit more. In the most attenuated position, it's nicely rounded but not muddy.
     
  10. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    Australia
    True but the mid position is so sublime on all proline Gretsch that's all anyone needs or wants :)
     
  11. G DynaTron

    G DynaTron Synchromatic

    807
    Dec 7, 2015
    France
    I use it with overdrive, rarely for clean sounds.

    The value of the cap in the up position is too high.
     
    j.s.c likes this.
  12. In the down position, it is somewhat useful. I agree with you re: the up position. I’ve been thinking about changing the cap value, but haven’t gone any further. I much prefer a tone pot
     
    Waxhead likes this.
  13. audept

    audept Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Age:
    71
    Dec 1, 2010
    Sydney, Australia
    Welcome to the forum, Dreamtime! I never use the mud switch, the last thing I need is a more muddy tone.
    welcome mat 4.jpg
     
    Waxhead likes this.
  14. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I love my mid switch, do I think it could use a bit of tweaking at times, yes, depending on the position but I like it better than my tone knob. I do use all three setting
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  15. TSims1

    TSims1 Gretschified

    Jun 18, 2013
    Atlanta
    It also depends on what kind of music you are making. One of my FAVORITE Gretsch tones has become Filters with the mudswitch down on the bridge pickup with a nice amount of overdrive. Creamy yet distinct rock lead tone man. Perfecto. It makes your Gretsch sound like a Les Paul in that formula.
     
    Mudshark and T Bone like this.
  16. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    There’s another thread on this subject here which may clear up the mud, a bit, so to speak. The concept of a switchable tone preset is sound, but the implementation Gretsch uses basically lops off all of the overtones, which is different from how a tone pot operates. As I’ve gone into in that thread, creating a fixed bridge circuit to direct some of the current to the cap and allow some highs to bypass the cap is the answer, but I’m finding it difficult to implement with a SPDT switch. I hope to work more on this over the next few weeks, but it’s been hectic to say the least.
     
    Wulfgang, T Bone and Dreamtime like this.
  17. TV the Wired Turtle

    TV the Wired Turtle Gretschified

    Jul 25, 2009
    so cal
    no use for a mud switch.. its lazy actually because its a two position static capacitance load.. Where as using a tone pot gives you a full range of variables based of a particular total capacitance load.
    [​IMG]


    In addition you can use a push pull pot that while in the down or standard position, is completely removing the tone circuit from the instrument for a clearer and brighter sound.. THAT.. stay with me, then allows you to use your master volume to gently attenuate some of the higher signal (ie, presence?) w a slight hair turn of the master. You in fact garner more control doing this on stage because you set your amp/pedals w the guitar's master slightly rolled back and then if you need that extra little boost for a solo or fighting the dumb heavy mitted drummer, its there in a flash.. Should you though find during the first song of a set that you may have a too bright signal especially when engaging boosts or overdrives.. you not only have that fine control from the master volume, you can instantly pop UP that spiffy new Tone Control and quickly dial in any level of treble attenuation that fits that moment.. Otherwise you're just a cud chewing cow stuck w the two static capacitors that Gretsch thought you should have in there..

    so sad to eat the pre chewed cafeteria prison lasagna

    [​IMG]


    when you could have your own steak cooked to your perfection! :)

    [​IMG]
     
    MKunie, ponca, Dreamtime and 2 others like this.
  18. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    To each their own, perhaps it is lazy but I like Synchros idea of adding in a bridge and dialling in a couple go to settings, any other changes I want I get from my amp or a pedal tweak. I do understand that won't work well outside of the home or studio use though. I will also admit to being a bit over the top when I said I like it better than my tone control. I like them both and think they both have their uses. But I won't disregard my mud switch as I do like it. I think maybe it has a lot to do with me constantly tweaking my amp, probably partially because of a mud switch setting.
     
  19. audept

    audept Senior Gretsch-Talker

    Age:
    71
    Dec 1, 2010
    Sydney, Australia
    I had this guitar made for me with 2 Vol & 1 tone knob all push/pull so they are out-of-circuit in the down position. That way I can play with no loading from the circuit, pickups straight to the output jack. There isn't even a pickup selector switch! Boy, you should hear those T-90s SCREAM!

    La Strega at home 016.jpg
     
    MKunie, Wulfgang, T Bone and 2 others like this.
  20. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    I see merit to Tavo’s idea, it’s actually an elegant solution. I also like the idea of using the master volume as a mild tone cut. I’ve never been all that hot on the idea of treble bleed caps.

    I like the idea of tone presets and have used them back in my Tele days. If you think a Gretsch sounds muddy with the 0.012 mfd tone cap on the up position, you should hear a Tele on the neck pickup with a 0.047 mfd tone cap engaged. On that same Tele, I did something similar to what Audept did, if you pulled up on the tone knob, no matter where the other controls were positioned, it gave you the bridge pickup, straight to the output jack. Talk about bright.

    I still believe that a switch with the proper presets can sound great and be useful. Placing a 0.012 mfd cap in the middle of a bridge made of two 220k resistors makes for a nice mellow sound. Likewise for a 0.0039 in a fixed bridge circuit.
     
    audept likes this.
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