How / want to play better

Discussion in 'THE Gretsch Discussion Forum' started by Far To Many, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    Great thread, thanks to FTM for kickin this one off! Hits really close to home, I would guess for a lot of us.
     
    MotorCentaur likes this.
  2. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    I have never met a musician that said “I know all I need to know”,,, If I ever do, our encounter will be a brief one
     
    new6659 likes this.
  3. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Synchromatic

    555
    May 20, 2016
    Australia
    Good video.

    What he doesn't explain is that the one, four and five chords are chords built on the 1st, 4th and 5th notes of the major scale.
    That is C, F and G in the key of C for example.
    The relative minor is always built on the 6th note of the major scale.
    The circle of 5ths is essential but everything starts with the major scale.

    Good thread. :)
     
    benjwri, Waxhead and gtttrrr like this.
  4. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    "The relative minor is always built on the 6th note of the major scale."
    Please explain , relative to the video taught here.....The biggest takeaway for me was how the I IV V chords were mathematically explained,,,, I'm not past that point yet, but I am moving the I, IV V around, in different keys and it's making perfect sense, stuff I've been playing, but the logic is now understood...,,,
    Thanks for any clarification....
     
  5. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    I have hung a printout in the jam room to help...
     
  6. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    FYI for the "you cant play with band guys without this education".....Tommy Bolin was invited to play with Billy Cobham (Major Jazz /progressive dude) and told the guys, he didn't feel "qualified" because he couldn't read music and didn't know theory,,,,He was invited,,they couldn't care less because he could play his ass off without knowing anything about music theory and reading sheets..We ended up with some great music because he wasn't hung up with the "I don't know theory, so I can't play with the big dogs" mentality....most of us have inherently learned more theory than we know,,,just by playing...Just like Tommy did... ..If you haven't listened to "Spectrum' by Billy Cobham,,,give it a listen,,,,or any of Tommy Bolin's stuff,,, one of my personal heroes. Point being, don't let a lack of "formal music education" keep you from rockin.....yeah don't try out for the Philharmonic in your area,,,but put a few guys together to make some noise and express yourself?...Absolutely....
     
    Merc likes this.
  7. Setzerhotrod

    Setzerhotrod Country Gent

    Age:
    58
    Oct 26, 2011
    Anchorage Alaska
    Take a look at how I approach intervals. Once learning the language of intervals, it will help in understanding many lessons.

     
    Bertotti likes this.
  8. Far To Many

    Far To Many Gretschie

    Age:
    46
    124
    Dec 31, 2018
    Upstate, NY
    Gretschmen65, You clearly have a great sense of theory. Clearly above my level...and that's great.

    I basically play on what sounds good--to me I guess, what fits in the parts, and most of all, what feels right. Right, or Wrong from the "correct" theory. I can immediately tell if I hit a note in MY playing that's off and doesn't sound good. I'll go back and noodle around to I find what should work there. Again, ultimately, I know I am playing something that fits some kind of music theory that I don't know anything about....But it works...for me. Maybe I am too basic or simpleton, but I have gotten by thus far, and can competently play in a "band" setting....for whatever that's worth.

    I am also amazed when I watch someone play a song from a band I like and am amazed on how much better it sounds because they hear like it is and I guess I just dumb it down to some basic notes on chords. It doesn't make it wrong, I just play it differently....no different than any other person covering a song does...mine is just simpler.


    But playing the minor pentatonic scale in first and second is a rut (or a crutch) that I have used for years....there is soooo much more out there. And I know there is a world of chords out there that may help me.


    Someone mentioned earlier playing around the chord. That is something I have interest in and that may help me---maybe technically it is farther ahead than my basic knowledge.

    I think I am just going to try different things, some suggested here, and see if they hurt or hinder me at this point. I am also beginning to think I should really just look into some lessons again.


    @gtttrrr, I think you totally get where I am, and I dig that. I would jam with you any day. Your post just above is damn near what I can't seem to get out of my mouth.

    Music is expression, I just want to express it a little better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    gtttrrr likes this.
  9. radd

    radd Synchromatic

    899
    Dec 27, 2017
    Santa cruz
    I’ll tell what that Blues guy, my teacher, did to me right off the bat. I already had pretty much nailed the minor and maj Pentatonic Scales the blues scale all over the neck. He took me back to triads all over the neck, playing the major scale in triads, as a matter of fact making me get good at the Major scale, then nat minor scale, then melodic minor. Oh ya, arpeggios too. I was thinking, why am I doing this at my age then a light bulb went of, then another, then another. All of a sudden everything I ever played over the years made sense. It took a number of months of just learning what he told me to before it started to make sense.

    There really is no short cut, let yourself enjoy the learning process. If you concentrate on enjoying where you are now and enjoy the learning and not worrying about where you are going......you won’t get there, instead you will already be there every day.
     
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  10. Far To Many

    Far To Many Gretschie

    Age:
    46
    124
    Dec 31, 2018
    Upstate, NY
    Radd, I know that light bulb is going to go off....someday, hopefully before it burns out or the electricity is cut off, LOL. But that is the moment I am waiting for. At some point, I am going to "get it". I just have to find my way there.
     
    gtttrrr likes this.
  11. radd

    radd Synchromatic

    899
    Dec 27, 2017
    Santa cruz
    Sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

    Be careful what advice you get from me....Because;

    I’m a lifetime intermediate, sometimes advanced on a good day, player. I’m not a natural at music, I have to work at it where some people are naturally gifted..that ain’t me. Therefore I have learned to enjoy the learning process and the massive repetition it takes me to master a complicated song or lick cleanly.
     
    MotorCentaur and gtttrrr like this.
  12. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Gretschified

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    Find a good teacher you are comfortable with to guide you. If there aren't any local where you are, I can recommend some who do personal internet lessons.

    I often quote the late great stand up comedian Mitch Hedberg,

    "I taught myself how to play guitar, which was a bad decision because I didn't know how to play, so I was a shitty teacher."
     
  13. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    I totally hear that, and hear the guys above saying you need basic theory to sit in with other band guys,, have experienced it first hand,,, I have a drummer and bass player buddy that I jam with all the time,,, we improvise grooves all the time, we recently invited a really good guitar player over, who has played in bands for many years, and adding that into the mix changed everything,,, Made me feel like an amateur, compared to what this guy knows, just from his list of tunes knowledge alone, and my inability to adapt to structure.Conversely, he was completely impressed with my ability to improvise with grooves we had never rehearsed or played before.. I was envious of his knowledge and he was envious of mine,,,,, so It’s totally up to what you are trying to do,,,, education is never a bad thing, in my opinion, but there is plenty of good to be had in being able to play from the heart, not knowing the next note...,
     
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  14. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    That said, I went back to the drawing board days after he left, to learn basic I IV V movements, that I had not paid attention to in years, so that I could keep up with this awesome dude next time he comes over :)
     
  15. David_D

    David_D Gretschie

    165
    Oct 14, 2015
    New Jersey
    I never learned to read music, but I did take a few music theory classes back in college. Those classes have helped me throughout my life, with respects to understanding keys and the relationships of the scale and chords. I would recommend getting some music theory training. It will go a long way in increasing your understanding of what chords are relative to specific keys.
     
  16. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    I had gotten so used to “you start a groove, and I’ll jump in” type of playing, that is easy with a 3 piece, I had forgotten what adding anyone else would do to the mix,,,,
     
  17. gtttrrr

    gtttrrr Synchromatic

    Age:
    51
    775
    Dec 7, 2011
    United States
    He was the best... “I used to do a lot of drugs.,, I used to but I still do too”. And “ escalators can never be broke, they just become stairs”...
     
    drmilktruck likes this.
  18. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Gretschified

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    I was at a conference once and the escalator was broken. As I stepped on it, I said to no one in particular that last line. The woman in front of me turned around and exclaimed, “Mitch Hedberg!”
     
    gtttrrr likes this.
  19. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    Kind of off topic but I like to play Rocksmith on PS4 now and then, real guitar real notes real songs dummied down until you make a certain percentage of notes then it adds more notes from the song in. So I get a Santana song and holy cow there is actually a lot going on in his playing, way beyond my current skill set, but that doesn't mean I don't try. I actually think if I played it more then a handful of times a year I would get better. It does help with my fingering and how fluid I get from note to note.
     
  20. Merc

    Merc Synchromatic

    826
    May 6, 2017
    Florida
    If I remember right in a interview SRV said something along the lines that he couldn’t read music. And that he found usually whenever he relied more on feel rather than thinking too much about it he’d be alright.

    I’m sure most of us are versed in SRV... if anyone here has never seen him in the Live at El Macombo, YouTube it together or buy and watch the entire show. That performance was pure magic. Here’s the opening with the song Testify.

     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
    Naldo, benjwri, Waxhead and 1 other person like this.
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