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Girl, you'll be a woman soon

Discussion in 'Songs in the key of Gretsch' started by Rusty Silver, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Synchro

    Synchro Super Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson, AZ
    Admin Post
    When these songs were written, pedophilia was not the problem it is today. I don't think that anyone took these songs to be creepy at the time.
     
  2. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Friend of Fred

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    I know that it wasn't talked about, but probably was just as big of a problem for some people. I found out a few years ago that a guy I went to high school with was sexually abused during that time by a baseball coach (not at my school but in Legion ball.) In retrospect, our parish pastor was almost certainly gay and liked to take one boy every summer with him on a trip to Europe for six weeks. People thought that was great, exposing one lucky lad to the glories of Italy. One of those was my then best friend and even now I have no reason to suspect anything happened to him, but there was one particular favorite of Father B's who I wouldn't be surprised to hear was molested.

    But I was commenting more that it's interesting how perceptions can change in a few generations. (Just think of Maurice Chevalier singing, "Thank Heaven For Little Girls" today!)
     
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  3. afire

    afire Country Gent

    I have the feeling that what's changed is the recognition of the problem. In my line of work (criminal defense), I occasionally ponder how easy it must have been to get away with all manner of atrocities 50, 100 years ago, particularly against inherently vulnerable victims.
     
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  4. wabash slim

    wabash slim Country Gent

    Age:
    68
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    Pedophilia has always been a problem. I can't think of a punishment that's severe or slow enough.
     
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  5. Synchro

    Synchro Super Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson, AZ
    Admin Post
    I don't think that Diamond was singing about pedophilia. Girls grow up and there is a period of time between when they physically mature and when they are culturally considered to be viable as adults. This has been a subject of songs for a long time: Only Sixteen (Dr. Hook), Go Away Little Girl (Steve Lawrence), Young Girl (Gary Puckett and the Union Gap), the list goes on. Most of these songs are sung from the standpoint of a somewhat older male rejecting the idea of forming a relationship with someone too young. I don't see any pedophilic motive in these songs. If anything, they are a warning against getting involved with someone that is too young.

    As far as saying "Girl, you'll be a woman soon", being the youngest uncle of a number of nieces I've been there when a teen-aged girl first begins to realize that young men are attracted to them and as an older family member you find yourself saying something very similar to that. The motive is simply to point out that they are in a new phase of life and will face new situations for which they must be prepared.

    The Neil Diamond song may have been written by a 26 year old, but I don't think that the lyrics come from that perspective. The protagonist in the song refers to himself as a boy ("the boy's no good"). If someone had referred to me as a boy when I was 26 years old I would have been insulted and I certainly didn't use that term to describe myself. I think that Diamond was just writing a song from the perspective of a teenager.

    Pop music, aimed at teens, is usually written and performed by people in their 20s or even 30s. If you examine the lyrics of many pop songs they sound a bit out of place coming from the mouths of adults, but they are not singing from the perspective of adults. They are, in a sense, actors portraying teen angst. Most successful bands are older than their target audience. Being a developed musician takes time and, while there are examples of successful teen acts, most Pop/Rock is created by adults.

    Attraction to a pre-pubescent child is completely aberrant, but once puberty kicks in there is a real chance for trouble. I've seen 12 year old girls that looked like they were 18 and 18 year old girls that looked like they were 12. The important thing is that any decent man will find out the age of a young lady before getting involved to any degree and will back away if the person is not of the age of majority. Sadly, it doesn't always happen that way.

    The age of consent and the age of marriage have, in many places, gone up in the last few decades and I'm all for it. Kids should get to be kids and have the opportunity to experience life before being burdened with all the responsibilities of a relationship.
     
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  6. Synchro

    Synchro Super Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson, AZ
    Admin Post
    I don't think that it was as prominent in the past. I could be wrong, but my impression is that there was much more cultural pressure against aberrant sexual behavior in the past than there is now. Because of that, behaviors which were on the fringes of society may have become more prevalent in the last few decades.

    I agree completely; pedophiles get no mercy from me. A few years back, a young woman of my acquaintance told me about having been abused as a child. The abuser was charged and convicted of his crime, but his punishment was a relative slap on the wrist. Decades later she was still suffering the effects and required continuous treatment with mood regulating drugs. Tragically, she died quite young as a side effect of having been so heavily medicated. I shed some tears over that one. Like I said, pedophiles get no mercy from me.
     
  7. afire

    afire Country Gent

    As a late Gen-Xer, I get almost the opposite impression. A high school senior dating a sophomore can wind up a registered sex offender for life. I don't think that was happening 50 years ago. At least as they relate to age-appropriate sexual relations, the laws and norms seem a lot more rigidly defined and strictly enforced today.

    And I don't think Neil Diamond is a pedophile (not so sure about Gary Puckett ;)), or that this song is about pedophilia. But for the reasons in the preceding paragraph, songs like this do come off as a little creepy to "younger" ears.

    I think reading pretty much all of Faulkner's novels as a young man was my first introduction to the idea that the old days may not have been quite as genteel as I had previously imagined them to be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  8. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Friend of Fred

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    Just think about the song Baby It’s Cold Outside. It previously was seen just as flirtatious dialogue between two adults who drank too much and hinted that she stayed overnight, which might have been mildly tantalizing in the 50s. Now many see it as a date rape song, where the guy is pressuring the girl to stay and maybe spiked her drink Or at least got her drunk.
     
  9. Lizardkinged

    Lizardkinged Friend of Fred

    Age:
    31
    Oct 5, 2009
    Michigan
    PYT by Micheal Jackson anyone?

    Americans forget about the Romans far too quickly. They loved kids...
     
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  10. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Country Gent

    Age:
    53
    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    I believe it was equally (at least) problem back then; but with the internet, we have access to "more" at local, state, national and international news.
     
  11. wabash slim

    wabash slim Country Gent

    Age:
    68
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    Years ago, pedophiles wouldn't last long enough to make it to trial.
     
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  12. Synchro

    Synchro Super Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson, AZ
    Admin Post
    Very true. While there is greater legal proscription against pedophilia in our day, I would submit that there was greater social proscription in the past. IMHO, social pressure can be quite effective.
     
  13. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Friend of Fred

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    And reportedly in prison, they are viewed by other prisoners as the lowest of the low. (Lower than murderers apparently.)
     
  14. Synchro

    Synchro Super Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson, AZ
    Admin Post
    Don't cross over into politics. I'll lock this thread in a heartbeat.
     
  15. HypotenusLuvTriangle

    HypotenusLuvTriangle Country Gent

    Oct 27, 2010
    Whittier, Ca
    Neil Diamond was all about social commentary. At least three of his songs describe the cyclical nature of child sex abuse. It starts with Desiree where a kid is molested by a woman twice his age. Then he follows that up with Girl, you’ll be a woman and on to September morn.

    On a side note, Cracked had a great article about it today. Also reminds me that all the 80s rock groups were all about jailbait.

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-wtf-lessons-world-teaches-us-about-sexualizing-teens/



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Tony65x55

    Tony65x55 Gretschified

    Age:
    61
    Sep 23, 2011
    The 'Shwa, Ontario, Canada
    Let's not forget My Sharona, a pervy song if there ever was one.

    I was thinking that a modern band doing a 2017 version of the Neil Diamond tune would go with:

    "Boy, you'll be a woman soon."

    Just wanted to be all-inclusive, that's all. Apologies to all, no offence intended. :)
     
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  17. russmack

    russmack Synchromatic

    531
    May 1, 2017
    ballina australia
    Here in Oz, in jail, they're known as rock-spiders.

    They aren't really appreciated anywhere.

    Russ
     
  18. Ian Jordan

    Ian Jordan Electromatic

    78
    Oct 14, 2012
    Coggeshall England
    At least you know what to buy her for Christmas. Imagine the joy on her face when she opens a box on Christmas day with the words Morphy Richards or Tefal on the outside.
     
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  19. Henry

    Henry Friend of Fred

    Apr 9, 2014
    Petaluma
    Some other wonderful creepy songs:



     
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  20. bubblyah

    bubblyah Synchromatic

    527
    Jan 17, 2010
    Calgary,Alberta
    That's the allergy you literally wear when people to see. It affects a lot of people. It's also the allergy no one wants to talk about. The elephant in the room so to speak.