Finding the Key!

Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by Bertotti, May 28, 2019.

  1. wabash slim

    wabash slim Friend of Fred

    Age:
    70
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    I only have half a key. I had to split it with the sound effects guy.
     
  2. Hammerhands

    Hammerhands Country Gent

    Aug 26, 2011
    Winnipeg
    Modes are sometimes descriptive and sometimes they are tools.

    So you could say a part of a song is in D Dorian, but you may als0 want to use D Dorian over a certain chord, even if that chord isn’t a D chord in the key of C.
     
  3. Lee Erickson

    Lee Erickson Country Gent

    Apr 20, 2009
    Eagan, MN
    Oops!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  4. Lee Erickson

    Lee Erickson Country Gent

    Apr 20, 2009
    Eagan, MN
    I'd like to endorse every thing Hammerhands said. If you can't figure it out from that, just post a youtube clip of the tune and we will tell you. Just promise that these tunes are what you really want to play, my competence is limited.

    Lee
     
  5. wabash slim

    wabash slim Friend of Fred

    Age:
    70
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    I play by ear, piano and guitar---have since I was 6 or so. I can always find the key. I can't explain it to anyone (can't explain it to myself), but I can just start playing along after a verse or two.
     
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  6. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I think you underestimate my ability to forget.
     
  7. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    You underestimate Synchros' ability to remind you

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
     
    drmilktruck and Bertotti like this.
  8. Scooter127

    Scooter127 Synchromatic

    843
    Feb 25, 2019
    USA
    My brother just sent me a poster that I think has all of this on it. I haven't unpacked it yet and I believe it's this one: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjALegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3pugFfBvCgAvwqzENG_-ao
     
    Jena, T Bone, Gregor and 1 other person like this.
  9. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    When I actually had a teacher he always had me working pentatonic scales, up and down the neck. I still forget those patterns.
     
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  10. knh555

    knh555 Electromatic

    31
    Apr 22, 2019
    Massachusetts
    I look for the half steps that sound right. If you find the two half steps in a major/minor scale, you have the key signature, giving me the notes and locking me into the appropriate major or minor scale. That also gives me the major/minor chords as well since I now have the key signature which ties directly into how far up the neck I am. I don't overthink the modes and trust my ears to find that tonal centers across the chord progression. Only then do I start looking for those outside notes, but I could stand to do a bit more of that.

    Note that I do not start with the pentatonic scale. I find it much easier to quickly lock into standard major/minor scales.
     
    Jena likes this.
  11. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Gretschified

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    It's usually the last place you look! (Which is pretty obvious, isn't it? Why would you keep looking after you've found it?)

    Reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg joke:

    I saw a boxing match advertised as a "Fight to the Finish." I think that's a good place to end!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
    Jena and T Bone like this.
  12. TSims1

    TSims1 Gretschified

    Jun 18, 2013
    Atlanta
    Sounds like you want to learn theory. Lots n lots of books and info out there. Start at the start, it all builds on itself like mathematics.
     
    Flouswa, Bertotti and pmac11 like this.
  13. Gregor

    Gregor Gretschie

    241
    Oct 17, 2018
    New Brunswick, Canada
    ....and as a wise man once said, "The best place to start, is at the beginning".
     
  14. wabash slim

    wabash slim Friend of Fred

    Age:
    70
    Feb 10, 2010
    lafayette in
    Play a note. It's either right or it isn't.

    Simple.
     
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  15. hcsterg

    hcsterg Country Gent

    Feb 13, 2012
    France
    In fact, I don't care. The main tonality of the tune and its modulation are my main concern. I do the rest by ear, and when I'm in doubt, I ask the knowledge to my band mates who are more qualified than me... :D
     
  16. benjwri

    benjwri Country Gent

    Age:
    81
    Oct 27, 2011
    Central ON Can
    Can you listen and tell when the I chord is playing? Most music will 'resolve' to the I chord. Play single notes to find the one note that matches the I chord. This should be the root of the key. Then play the major and minor triad over this root. See which one sounds the best. If major sounds best then (most likely) the chords will be I, IV, and V7. If minor sound best then the chords will probably be i(m), iv and v7 or V7. This is not cast in stone by any means but will work probably 80%.
     
    Jena likes this.
  17. Lee Erickson

    Lee Erickson Country Gent

    Apr 20, 2009
    Eagan, MN
    Wow! This thread went strange in a very unhelpful way. Give us a tune. A youtube video of a favorite troublesome tune maybe.

    Let's walk thru it.

    Lee
     
  18. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I drive a lot and don't listen to a lot of music in the car anymore. But when I do I try to see if I can guess but it does little good if I forget what tune I was trying to guess on, my drives are 4-8 hours every day not counting the time I work in the manufacturing facilities. With that in mind, I have no specific song in mind. It was something I was pondering on one of my drives and in my limited brain space seemed like a useful skill. The other thing that always throws me is to know when someone is using a capo just by listening to the song. I am tending to think the advice to learn major and minor scales inside and out to be essential for both of these skills.
     
  19. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    Plus 1. Based only on Synchro's comment, I downloaded this from Amazon Kindle the other day. Having looked it over, Edly's is great recommendation.

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Jena and Bertotti like this.
  20. T Bone

    T Bone Country Gent

    Thanks for that reference. Bought a copy and it was delivered yesterday. Need to get into it (and work on those scales).


    I think I have that poster in a tube I've not opened yet. Travelled a lot for work earlier in the year, ordered on the road.
     
    Jena likes this.
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