Correct Output for NOS '60's PAF Filtertrons

Discussion in 'The Pickup Place' started by HOYERGEORGE, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    Hi Guys !

    Need your help. Trying to figure out if I've been hosed . Bought a pair of PAT # Filtertron pups advertised as NOS '60's. When they arrived the magnets were dead. A replacement set was sent and when my tech finished putting them in the guitar, they read Neck: 7.2 ; Bridge: 7.4. Seems rather high to me. Advice please. THX!
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  2. Outlaw

    Outlaw Synchromatic

    698
    Jul 13, 2011
    UK
    that does seem high.
    I'm no expert but i read somewhere that vintage filtertron output was between 4k and 5k.
    someone here with more knowledge than me will give you a more accurate answer.
     
  3. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    Thanks - that was my understanding as well
     
  4. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    Original late 50's Filters were around 4k. The neck and bridge were the same pups.

    IIRC, the early 60's Filters were bumped a bit, but the readings that you have seem to be very high. Hard to believe that Gretsch went that "hot" that early.

    The most accurate modern replacement for early Filters are the Ray Butts from TV Jones, and they sound wonderful.

    Best of luck.
     
    Outlaw and ZackyDog like this.
  5. wildeman

    wildeman Gretschified

    May 10, 2015
    norcal
    Got pictures, sound kinda like pre FMIC ceramics.
     
    pmac11 and ZackyDog like this.
  6. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    These F'trons sound very similar to my Duncan Antiquities and Manlius '59 Low Turn with long A3 magnets. Before I start thinking about magnet swaps etc. could you point me to recordings ( Chet Atkins ) starting with clean tones ? I'm really trying to ascertain tonal differences & not be confused with more amp volume and distortion. THX!
     
  7. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    I don't have any Chet stuff, and really not a huge follower.

    The "tone" that sticks in my head is Stephen Stills and Neil Youngs early work with early mono Falcons, 6120's, and Gents.

    Those late 50's Gretsches, with their weaker pups and no factory potting, just have a more open top end, and a crisper bottom end.

    The RB's from TV capture this really well IMO.

    Here's a clip from Stills. Gretsch late 50's mono Falcon through a Plexi.
     
  8. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    Yeah, the Springfield stuff - from memory - was reverbed/trem Fender amps ; Setzer - Blonde Bassmans and of course, Harrison (CG 6122) through Vox = all sound different IMO . Hard in a band setting to get a clear idea.
     
  9. ZackyDog

    ZackyDog Friend of Fred

    Age:
    55
    Feb 6, 2015
    In the USA
    Vintage 50s/60s Filtertrons (neck and bridge) were wound at about 4k ohms, with alnico V magnets.
     
    G5422T likes this.
  10. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    Thanks for the A5 fact. Looks like I was sold Baldwin era PAT. # F'trons with probably ceramic magnets. Need to start researching the magnet value - thought ceramics were hotter than 7.4 - but maybe not going back to the '80's/90's.
     
    ZackyDog likes this.
  11. wildeman

    wildeman Gretschified

    May 10, 2015
    norcal
    Stock late '90s ceramics, 7.53 back, 7.22 front. My own pickups just measured by me. 20200120_172250_HDR.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  12. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    Thanks for this - look just like mine down to the numbers. How do you like them ?
     
  13. afire

    afire Country Gent

    Art Wiggs was/is notorious for claiming anything and everything he sold as vintage when often the parts were just current or recent production, often just crappy reproductions, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they (and that claim) originated with him. Do you have any pictures? Were the covers soldered to the base? If so, then probably just modern pre-FMIC ceramic FilterTrons. If not, then maybe late '70s Baldwin FilterTrons. It wasn't until the late '70s that they got up to the 7K+ range. And the jury's still out on what magnets they used. I've seen conflicting evidence pointing both ways.
     
  14. G5422T

    G5422T Country Gent

    May 24, 2012
    usa
    Yep, pics would help.

    Hate to see someone buy and pay for a so called vintage pup, only to get an older modern one.
     
  15. wildeman

    wildeman Gretschified

    May 10, 2015
    norcal
    I think they are great, so do lot's of other people.
     
  16. dak55

    dak55 Country Gent

    May 31, 2018
    NC
    That name brings back not good memories for me.
     
    G5422T likes this.
  17. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    I didn't want to name names but Gee, guess where I got not only these but a ' vintage ' wiring harness that had to be totally re soldered ? His antics took my project w-a-y over budget and what a complete joy to talk to over the phone where it was all my tech's fault. You live and you learn but best to spread the word. Wish I did have pix - other than straight on in the guitar. No point in pulling them and taking them apart - more good money after bad. It's been a while but I'm over this now. I do appreciate you taking the time to comment as you've confirmed my worst fears - and in a way that's a good thing. All the Best for 2020 !
     
    Henry likes this.
  18. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    Please see my response to afire. Thanks for your input - it helped confirm my worst fears.
     
  19. afire

    afire Country Gent

    Yeah, when I read your post, it immediately sounded like an Art Wiggs tale of woe. I actually met the man when I was 13 years old and visiting family in his neck of the woods. I was already a Vintage Guitar (before it was even a magazine) subscriber, so I knew he was a Gretsch guy. I got my parents to take me to his place to check out a couple of vintage Gretsches and played a late '60s Streamliner that I unsuccessfully tried to get my dad to buy me. I didn't know what it was at the time, but I have a distinct memory of a big white guitar hanging in his garage being sprayed. In retrospect, it was probably one of the bogus White Falcon conversions he was also notorious for passing off as original.
     
  20. HOYERGEORGE

    HOYERGEORGE Electromatic

    33
    Oct 19, 2010
    Seattle
    You'd think he'd get hit with a cease and desist order - known it to happen - just unbelievable.
     
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