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Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by houndman55, Aug 12, 2015.
Thank you E-man, I like you, a lot.
It's been my experience that a lot of people who claim that they aren't being 'politically correct' are really just being jerks. What is wrong with being civil and taking someone else's opinions/feelings into account before you start talking?
NOT to say that it isn't sometimes taken to extreme.
As to controversial opinions - The Eagles put me to sleep, along with the Beach Boys.
And Danny Gatton wasn't nearly as good as people said he was .... hahahah, just kidding on that one!
Good points here. I have strong preferences when it comes to music, but I'm also constantly surprised by what I find that I like or dislike. Sometimes I feel like my tastes haven't strayed far from my father's (B 1916) but occasionally I find myself truly liking something completely new and surprising.
Maybe that's not so unique. My father really liked Frankie Carle, a stride pianist from the '30s - '50s, but he also liked the Ventures, which were brand new at the time. He also had a big part in introducing me to the music of Chet Atkins. Thank goodness that he introduced me to the light classical of Leroy Anderson, I learned a lot from that.
I have lines I don't care to cross musically, but I can see that the musicians on the far side of those lines may well be talented.
As I kid back in the 80's I used to think if something wasn't heavy metal, new wave, goth or blues it wasn't worth checking out. As I got older I grew a appreciation of everything between Skinny Puppy, Patsy Cline, 70's motown, U.K Subs, Andres Segovia to Woody Guthrie. Alot of it was the finding a scene or click to fit into, you dress the uniform everyone else is wearing.
Then you start to grow up and the saying"old peoples music" was the lament of someone who didn't have the benefit of experience that comes with age. I also went through the age of Steve Vai,Yngwie Malmsteen, Joe Satriani, Paul Gilbert and the whole shredder scene. If you didn't know theory, went to g.i.t or compose you were considered a joke.. However hearing a single bended note from Angus or Malcom young could just as easily get your blood pumping to. Then you listen to guys like Roy Clark who were doing it back in the 60's.
To me music that is controversial could be as silly as a group like the p.m.r.c trying to censor music, to Ice T singing cop killer. U2 made a well established career being controversial in there private lives that had nothing to do with there music. Most of us have read the tales told by Neil young, Tom Petty to Jared Leto of 30 seconds to mars being screwed over ..man that's a whole other thread right there.
Then a few years ago my eyes were really opened to how things are in today's music scene be it hip hop, metal, alternative, gospel, soul or top pop 40 bubble gum pop. I had the privilege of recording at the modest mouse house in Portland. The decisions that are made be the powers that be that effect hundreds of bands could come down to something as simple if they had a pepsi or coke that day... your a brand, a commodity, a trademark with a limited shelf life.
That being said different genres of music that I never even heard before were being represented and recorded by other artists there.The pre production, the nitty gritty side of things most people don't see .. I have learned that I may not always like what I hear, but there is still something to be learned. The insight, skills and technological know how.
The most controversial thing I still stick to my guns about? No one puts ketchup on a hotdog!
Overall crime is down by 30%; reporting of crime is up 600%. On our local news station (#1 in the state) it's always "Breaking News!". Go figure.
Karen Carpenter had one of the best female voices that ever recorded music. But in person they were a yawn. Every song was exactly like the record and they didn't talk or introduce anything. On the other hand, Charro was someone that I would never have bought a record, but live, she put on a fabulous show, as does Wayne Newton.
Talent comes in many flavors.
I Hate Southern Rock (do you know any SKINNERRRRRR?) Argeeee!
Hey! Don't besmirch my national anthem
There's a difference between music and entertainment. Both are important a frequently they coexist, but they are not the same thing. The Carpenters were musicians first and foremost. If you listen to their albums, you here a lot of musical ideas, only some of which had commercial potential. I really appreciated the Carpenters because I had an interest in classical music and especially admired their vocal arrangements. They were creating some good music, but were out of step with the mainstream of Pop entertainment of the time.
Some acts are just the opposite. Hair bands, and other Heavy Metal institutions tend to go heavy on the theatrics, but may rarely break the boundaries of three (power) chord songs. I'm fine with that, you have to sell what the public is willing to buy and every discretionary purchase has a lot of competition. You have to gain attention and hope to win over an audience.
If you try to stand solely on musical principle you will find yourself in the classical or jazz bins. If you want to make it in jazz, the best advice I could give you is to marry someone with a good job. (I'm not kidding about that. I wish I were, but I'm not.) There are very few symphony orchestra gigs out there (relatively speaking) and your chances are about equal to someone wishing to make a career in pro sports, maybe worse.
So that leaves entertainment. Tommy Emmanuel is a great guitarist, but he would be the first to tell you that he's an entertainer. His act is humorous, holds the occasional surprise and offers a lot of variety. When he plays "Initiation" there is a hushed silence in the room. He knows how to work an audience.
Tommy's predecessor, Chet Atkins, had the persona of a shy country boy from the hills of Tennessee, but his banter was not at all random. Chet used his public persona in his banter. He told humorous stories about his impoverished youth. His eastern Tennessee voice was perfect for making him seem both interesting and accessible to his audience. You came away from his concerts feeling like you had met someone very interesting and someone very nice. It wasn't flashy, but it was theatrically solid.
Les Paul kidded around and came across as a friendly jokester, but there was always a hint of his utter genius in the mix. I never saw him live, but videos of his Iridium shows paint a picture.
Rick Nielson wore a Bowery Boys costume and came on stage with ever more outlandish guitars. Ted Nugent does the Motor City Madman routine of an over-the-top, egocentric guy. Kiss wore bizarre costumes and makeup. They weren't there to be accessible, they were there to be intimidating. Earth Wind & Fire did an illusionist act. The Shadows moved in synchronization while playing instrumentals. Lot Straitjackets wear Mexican Wrestling Masks and to some degree exaggerate their movements when playing. Even icons like Duane Eddy tell stories about their songs.
I, for one, am not particularly entertaining. I play competently, but I don't really care to front the band. I will play second fiddle in stage banter, but I'm not a good MC by nature. I would probably have fit in well with the Carpenters.
I’ve never been able to get into “guitar heros”. Jimi......Santana......Slowhand.......Frampton........any of those dudes. Don’t get me wrong, I learned from the tones and am grateful for the contributions, but I just don’t sit around and listen to music like that. The one that probably blew my mind most was SRV, but I can only listen to him for like 10 minutes and I’m done.
Me and my buddy used to play up a more modern "Dean and Jerry" deal on stage. It wasn't put on or anything, but he'd goof around with the crowd, and I'd come on like a slightly meaner Dean Martin. The crowd dug that sort of genuine banter between 2 best friends who have different personalities.
My only true guitar hero was Chet, and he did it without theatrics. He just played better than anyone else I had heard. Most of the other "must listen" guitarists don't figure prominently in my collection.
As I understand it, that's how Dean and Jerry got started. Dean made a wise-crack about Jerry after his act had finished and Jerry came back to the microphone and said "that's not very nice". People laughed and an act was born.
Okay, here is a hand grenade... Don't like Dylan very much at all. I never thought his voice was good and music was average. It was the Emperors new clothes for the hippies.. Don't question the Emperor he is so hip! Just my controversial 2 cents.
First, my humble response to Houndman's offerings:
I disagree on Freddy and Brian. I thin Freddy was an amazing singer and haven't ever heard anything to eat me to believe that Brian was better. There's no question that all of Queen sang wonderfully and their harmonies are amongst the best on record, but Freddy was the sh*t.
Dylan, IMHO, does, indeed, suck. I'll grant you that he did write some very cool lyrics at times, but as far as I'm concerned, his biggest contribution to music history is turning The Beatles onto pot.
Jimi may have not been the most technically proficient guitarist, he was incredibly innovative and what he played worked amazingly for what he recorded. His place in history can't be questioned. No Jimi, no Eddie Van Halen and therefore a whole genre of music/guitar technique may never have come to be.
I hate Metallica.
Coldplay sucks in the worst way.
I don't even know who James blunt is.
Beiber? Doe anyone even ned to discuss him? C'mon.
Some of my own...
I'm sure this will it one as a shock to many, but I firmly believe that the common dominator of musical talent has plummeted over the last 30 years. Ever since the advent of digital technology and the "push button" revolution of music making, the requisite level of talent and ability for one to make music has gone down to the point where now, anyone with a computer can produce a pice of music, even with no ability to play an instrument. The result is also music that sound like it was written by a computer program that has been fed music theory and an algorithm of what constitutes a "hit."
I consider myself VERYY lucky to have cut my teeth before the digital revolution. I learned to play and record on reel to reel machines, with no pitch correction, no DAWs and the need for a song to be a song, rehearsed and thought pout before it could be even considered worth trying.
I think the movie "It May Get Loud" was a waste. It should be reshot with Jeff Beck, Tommy Emmanuel and Brian Setzer. That would be must watching.
The best band in history is The Beatles. The best American band is Little Feat. The best singer of The Great American Songbook is Frank Sinatra. I'm sure you're all shocked that I wold say this.
The Stones suck. Sloppy garage band.
If I was given great tickets to Bruce Springsteen, I'd sell them.
I think Pat Beneath had a kick ass voice.
Chrissy Hynde is one of the best rockers ever. Period.
Anyone who thinks Ringo wasn't a brilliant drummer just doesn't get it.
I hate Rap/Hip Hop. I barely consider it music.
That's all I can think of for now, except this... my opinions are just that... mine. What I believe shouldn't be cause for anyone to second guess their own beliefs. Everything is an open discussion except for child abuse, cruelty to animals and the fact that The Beatles are the best ever. EVER.
Stax was better than Motown.
That's all I got for now.
Queen was awesome. I didn’t like everything they did, but even the songs I didn’t like were expertly performed. Bohemian Rhapsody amazes me to this day.
I have never been a Dylan fan. I’ll grant that he wrote some evocative lyrics but his voice turns my stomach and I don’t think that most of his writing was all that good.
Hendrix has never done much for me. I’ve listened and tried to hear what others hear in him, but it just isn’t happening for me. I have heard a couple of things that I thought were good, but I just don’t get the messianic fervor some guitarists have for this guy. I find his voice almost as repulsive as Dylan’s. Terry Kath, of Chicago, was a contemporary of Hendrix and Hendrix was in awe of him. For the time and the style, Kath gets my vote every time.
Don’t know much about Metallica, not a metal guy.
Coldplay didn’t light any big fires in my soul, but I thought they were ok.
I don't even know who James blunt is, either.
Bieber . . . If he doesn’t meet with an early and ignominious end I’ll be surprised. It’s guys like him that give spoiled brats a bad name.
Digitally created music has all the charm of a computer program. Fewer kids are learning real instruments these days, and it’s a cryin shame. There is a surplus of good guitarists these days, courtesy of a decades-long guitar craze and sixty plus years of red-blooded males wanting to play guitar. This won’t be the case in another thirty years, unless something changes.
I put my money where my mouth is on this one too. When we record, we use a manual count-in and no digital rhythm guide. I’ve always said that a beating heart is amrequired part of music and I’m still saying it. These automated rhythms are choking the life from music. Drum machines and their descendants have really harmed music.
A agree about It Might Get Loud, but with one caveat; I prefer Jeff Beck when he goes for a Rockabilly sound instead of some of the distorted sounds he employs. Crazy Legs, the Les Paul tribute with Imelda May and the Rockabilly set he did on the Ronnie Scott’s Blu-Ray were my favorites. Wired and Blow by Blow are right up there, along with Truth. Jeff Beck’s Guitar Shop suffered from too much distortion, IMHO.
Beatles were awesome. No strong feelings either way about Little Feat, but everyone knows that the greatest American band was The Archies. Sinatra was pretty cool, no question there.
The Stones quit impressing me about the time Satisfaction came out. I think it’s become a thang and no one wants to point out that their clothing is not what they think it to be.
If I was given great tickets to Bruce Springsteen, I'd burn them.
I liked Benatar, don’t have an opinion about Hynde.
Like(d) Ringo. He was an essential element of the Beatles.
No use for Rap/Hip Hop. Hate child abuse, cruelty to animals as well. Can’t agree that the Beatles were the best band ever. That honor goes to Clutch Draggin & the Lug Nuts. Three great guys that sound great together.
Musically we are in the first generation (I'm 44) where the adults look at the kids and mutter under their breath p*****s!
No Elvis, Alice, Iggy Jerry Lee, Johnny, etc to scare the parents. All easily to pallet, all homogenized. All about $$ and conformity.
The Stooges, Birthday Party, Swans, etc.. have already happened. Heavy music is ersatz overtly masculine posturing. The Blues (real blues, not midland white blues) is long dead, punk rock is a commodity. real NY hip hop has been replaced by a materialistic culture that wants to 'get theres'. Soul music is a relic. If I were say, Kanye West, I would probably want to open my neck just knowing that Ike Turner and Sly Stone were actual things that really existed and that this is what I was doing with "R&B".
...but what do you really think.
As I've aged, I believe I've come to realize good music when I hear it, no matter what the period or what genre. At least I think I have. I'll leave it at that.
My highschool art teacher back in the 80's would play old R&B to the shagrin of my punk & metal friends. She would always say when your older you will get it. I get it now.