Componants of Tone and what shapes your sound

Discussion in 'Technical Side of Things' started by megabutter, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. paul64

    paul64 Gretschie

    234
    Mar 14, 2010
    Spain
    Thanks for that gem of info. And I thought I was pretty up on Clash lore; I too "remember" Mick Jones playing a White Falcon on one gig and in the London Calling video and until just now always assumed that to be the case. I've seen the photos of Joe from '77 with the Falcon and had always presumed it to be the same one Mick later used. You live and learn :)

    And Thunderball, I take my hat off to you. You certainly know how to flame a thread and keep people running round in circles! No offence whatsoever to any posters as the debate for me has been fun and insightful, but don't some of you realise that when the fish stop biting is when the' fisherman' goes home? ;)
     
  2. TennisNick

    TennisNick Gretschie

    243
    May 3, 2010
    Moncton, NB
    You're so predictable!

    Here's a fun game, go out and grab a Strat and a Les Paul, and make us a fun little video in which you make each one sound like the other.

    Before you get all up and pantywadded about how I should be the one to prove something to you, well, you're wrong there too.

    You make a claim, you have to give us some proof, and in the way you've postulated the claim, 1 negative claim is all it takes to disprove you.

    I also noticed you completely jumped over my paraphrase of George Harrison, because it disproved you entirely. I bet you like arguing religion too don't ya?
     
  3. SnoopyKTFC

    SnoopyKTFC Gretschie

    285
    Nov 22, 2009
    Kettering UK
    Can a Cat sound like a Dog? Both have tails, 4 legs and furry crappy arses.

    I've spent 8 and half hours trying everything I could think of to get my dog to meow tonite. He looks ever so bored. He fell asleep in the end and I .....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
     
  4. workknot

    workknot Country Gent

    Age:
    77
    Feb 15, 2009
    Brainerd, Minnesota
    It just seems that this thread has gotten completly off track and derailed. I would suggest closing it.
    Pop's
     
  5. Manic

    Manic Country Gent

    Dec 5, 2009
    Okay, how about we address the specific question of the OP? The key phrase appears to be of your sound. So, the keys to my tone simply: technique, guitar.

    With a guitar, that is. Much of the time, I don't plug the Gretsch in.
     
  6. Thunderball

    Thunderball Synchromatic

    801
    Oct 2, 2009
    New York
    Wrong as usual, tennisnick. Religion is no fun arguing because you can't prove anything. How exactly does one prove my God is better than yours?

    I like discussing music because as you see I can prove things. Page, Harrison, Townshend realized a guitar is a guitar is a guitar. When will you realize that?

    And here's another name for you: Eddie Van Halen. He went from an iconic home made guitar to some Music Man guitar and guess what? Sounds the same. Van Halen is another who realized that you can make any guitar sound like any guitar. I have no idea why you and others can't see (hear) that.

    I am giving proof: guitarist's names and the many different guitars they played that sounded the same. Step up to the plate, kid, and present some facts to back up your position. Quit saying I am wrong and prove it.

    Once again, other than one or two exceptions (a Rickenbacker 12 string, for instance) any electric guitar can be made to sound like any other electric guitar.
     
  7. Thunderball

    Thunderball Synchromatic

    801
    Oct 2, 2009
    New York
    I disagree, Pops. It still is on track. The topic may have moved to 'can a guitar sound like another guitar' but that discussion is still in line with the spirit of the original post. It is all about what is important to shaping of tone. I have shown that the guitar itself does very little in shaping tone. George Harrison played three very different Gretsches...they all sounded the same. I thus contend that it is the influence of amp and player that truly shapes one's sound.
     
  8. TennisNick

    TennisNick Gretschie

    243
    May 3, 2010
    Moncton, NB
    But they DIDN'T sound the same!!!!!!! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!!

    I'm seriously entertaining the idea that as you've gotten older, you're losing the subtelty in your hearing, because anyone who can't hear the difference between THIS guitar solo...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqXrq4TqDHg"]YouTube - The Beatles - When I Saw Her Standing There[/ame]

    THIS guitar solo

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMELRe3_EN0"]YouTube - The Beatles - Roll Over Beethoven (With Lyrics) Remaster[/ame]

    And THIS solo

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLLS1q7j8w"]YouTube - The Beatles - Act Naturally[/ame]

    Is having a hearing problem!

    Duojet with Dynasonics

    Country Gent with Filtertrons

    Tenessean with Hi Lo Trons.

    In that order. 3 guitars, same guitar player. The only thing that makes them similar is the fella playing them! (but then that really goes into the "tone is in the fingers" argument doesn't it? Which, to a certain extent is true, but it does not in any way take away from the impact that gear has on sound.)
     
  9. TennisNick

    TennisNick Gretschie

    243
    May 3, 2010
    Moncton, NB
    You're likely to say "You're AGREEING WITH ME THEN!"

    Wrong. I'm agreeing that the situation has a foot on each side of the fence, It's slightly gray, you however, do not budge from your obviously erroneous theory. Everyone is wrong and I alone am right, is ridiculous.
     
  10. Thunderball

    Thunderball Synchromatic

    801
    Oct 2, 2009
    New York
    Dude, the three George solos in those three tunes help prove my case further. The three different guitars sound the same. Let me repeat that: the three GUITARS sound the same. Any differences that arise is due to the recording techniques. Are you telling me you can not hear the echoey reverb that drenches George's "Standing There" solo? George could have played a Les Paul on that solo and it would have sounded the same due to the way it was recorded. I don't play lead but if I did I can take my Strat, tweak some knobs and sound exactly like all three of those solos.

    The Beatles progressed rapidly in the studio. Any variety of sounds they got from their guitars was not because of some inherent sound in those guitars, but rather because of the various recording techniques. They knew one guitar was like another. They knew the studio and the amps was where the difference can be produced. They knew a guitar is a guitar is a guitar.
     
  11. TennisNick

    TennisNick Gretschie

    243
    May 3, 2010
    Moncton, NB
    You've got to be either deaf, high or both, That is the only conclusion this thread can come too.

    Done.
     
  12. vulture

    vulture Banned

    Age:
    67
    212
    Jun 26, 2010
    Tucson, AZ
  13. araT

    araT Gretschified

    Age:
    34
    Mar 24, 2009
    Berlin, Germany
    [​IMG]

    I can't look away :eek: ..someone pass the popcorn :eek:
     
  14. Doc Helliday

    Doc Helliday Gretschie

    419
    Dec 21, 2009
    LA
    I can totally see where Tbird is coming from.

    I think people misuse the word "tone" and make it some magical thing when really its quite simple and subtle.

    My stock solid mahogany Yamaha single cut sounds different from my Gretsch 5125. When I put Mean 90s in the Yammy though the gap became less apparent. Still though completely clean I could tell the difference. It wasn't a huge enough difference that my roommate came outta his room and screamed "Wow Matt the upper mids on your Yamaha are more defined than on your Gretsch!"

    I know this is true because I got a Epiphone Dot Studio and put all 6120 Gretsch parts in it to turn it into a poor man's 6120. It does not sound like one, because its got that center block down the middle. It sounds less open and alive than a 6120... but how? I spent $300 on parts that a 6120 has.

    Its because different construction types of guitars sound different, not magically different, like the highs on a Tele cause a Unicorn to come down from the sky and snot rocket skittles at you, or a PRS's lows cause demons to come outta your closet, unlike an SG that only has faires that fly outta your pantry.

    Its all kind of subtle, and picking technique plays a huge role. Like playing next to the bridge on my Yammy gives a nice Tele sound...

    First you have to take all the loaded connotations outta the word tone and then think about it.

    I mostly play guitars for feel and response, its the same way with Tube vs SS amps.
     
  15. 6stings

    6stings Friend of Fred

    Age:
    58
    Aug 14, 2010
    Norway
    "Thunderball vs TennisNick" is not over???
     
  16. dafreeze

    dafreeze Friend of Fred

    Hey 6-string....wasn't it the Norweigans who messed up and let the 'Thing' out in John Carpenters remake?

    Not a slam, just an observation! Ha!!

    (I'm 1/4 Norwegian, Mom's Mom is 100%)
     
  17. 6stings

    6stings Friend of Fred

    Age:
    58
    Aug 14, 2010
    Norway
    You're right.
    1/4 is enough to make you "dafreeze":D
     
  18. dafreeze

    dafreeze Friend of Fred

    cool


    (it's a play on my initials and my last name)
     

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  19. Strummerson

    Strummerson Country Gent

    Jul 15, 2010
    Ann Arbor
    Townshend on his 6120

    Turns out he only used it because he loved how it looked. Guitars really are interchangeable.

    Excerpt from May/June 1972 Guitar Player
    http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/gear/guitar/gretsch.html

    PT: I never really got into old guitars until Joe Walsh (James Gang) rang me up one night and said, “I’ve got something for you,” because we buy one another presents. He buys me old concert amps and I buy him synthesizers and we have become very good friends. Anyway, he said, “I’ve got something for you,” and I said “What?” and he said, “A 1957 Gretsch.”

    GP: Chet Atkins type?

    PT: Right, with real f-holes. I said, “Great, cheers, man,” and it turned out to be a real knockout. I was being polite. I opened the case and it was bright orange and I thought, “Ugh! It’s horrible, I hate it.” I went home and went into my studio and plugged it in and it totally wrecked me out, it’s the best guitar I’ve got now. It’s the Chet Atkins model, with double pickups, f-holes and single cut-away.
     
  20. Charlie Cash

    Charlie Cash Gretschie

    340
    Jan 18, 2010
    Western Colorado
    It looks like Mr. Ball has just been having a little fun with us all along.
     
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