breaking newzz: EHX sues the bastages of Moorer and WINSZZZ!

Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by TV the Wired Turtle, Apr 11, 2019.

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  1. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    No worries and no reprimand intended to anyone. I think we were still within the lines, so to speak, but I could see the discussion breaking out of the lines and any second, and I wanted to deal with that possibility.
     
  2. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    I have the HOF Mini Reverb myself. The Toneprint software also allows one to access and edit/customise a collection of EHX reverb templates, and save them to the pedal, as well as on your pc or tablet for future use. One can edit delay, predelay, diffusion, tail length, and tone. There's also an option that assigns which parameter the single knob controls, and an editor for modulating the tails... chorus, tri-chorus, flanger, and if I recall correctly, vibrato. Fantastic tech, and a bargain at the market price.

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Jockabilly

    Jockabilly Synchromatic

    Age:
    47
    593
    Sep 15, 2018
    Argyll
    The difficulty with the intellectual property aspect is the question of "How much of your new 'wonder design' is yours?". Very few things come out of nowhere and so most depend on building upon someone else's intellectual property. The first steam engine was a very simple and very limited device but another man saw the potential, took the design and developed it into a much more useful design then another man realised that, instead of burning fuel to create steam to drive a piston you could burn fuel in the cylinder and then the Internal combustion engine was created. I am guessing that, when you throw together a new DSP with a nifty algorithm few would write the algorithm but rather, borrow an existing one and tweak it. Is it really your IP in it's entirety if it is largely based on what has gone before with a tweak here and there?

    I have always been of the opinion that the business world is a very cat and dog affair where you do whatever you can to get ahead and grab your cut and, if someone else steals your stuff then it's on you for not protecting it well enough and if you manage to steal the oppositions stuff that's just good business. Not a world I have ever wanted to be involved in myself although, when I was a graphic designer I worked with and got to know a number of businessmen and my impression was very much that 'all was fair in love and business'.
     
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  4. Bertotti

    Bertotti Country Gent

    Jul 20, 2017
    South Dakota
    I thought people here liked moore, seems there have been several pedals brought up over the years that people have bought.
     
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  5. Sabato

    Sabato Gretschie

    419
    Mar 22, 2019
    Massachusetts
    While I appreciate your logic and I get your point, I have always considered the 1949 Ford an ugly beast and the loss of the big fenders the decline of design.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Sabato

    Sabato Gretschie

    419
    Mar 22, 2019
    Massachusetts
    Sir Isaac Newton: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
     
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  7. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Age:
    55
    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    True. I had a Mooer Blues Crab a while back, which was apparently ( allegedly? reportedly? everyone says so, therefore it must be true? ) a clone of the first generation Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal, which itself is no longer in production. The Blues Crab is ok for low gain drive, but offered nothing I couldn't get from my Xotic BB.
     
  8. Jockabilly

    Jockabilly Synchromatic

    Age:
    47
    593
    Sep 15, 2018
    Argyll
    As I see it there are basically four camps -

    1, Those who are short on funds but want good stuff or who just don't 'need' that item enough to pay the top dollar for the 'original' (I use this term loosely given that everything tends to be based on what has gone before). They don't see it as their business whether the originators Intellectual Property is respected or not as they see that as the originators lookout.

    2, Those personally involved in the business who, naturally, don't want someone stealing their design and depriving them of revenue and who want to see those who do the stealing punished by guys with more clout so that they will think twice about stealing in future.

    3. Those who have the wherewithal to buy the Big Name goods and who want to preserve the elite status that such purchasing power gives. If you spent Ferrari money on your automobile you are bound to be somewhat miffed if everyone else can keep up with you on the highway for bus fare.

    4. Those who simply have hard and fast rules about what constitutes right and wrong.

    I can't help thinking at times of the Open Source ethos where the aim is to make all ideas communal property and free in order that all may prosper, develop and move forward. If one were of a religious bent you could believe that all innovations we come up with ultimately belong to God and are given that we may share and prosper and advance as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  9. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    I have spent small amounts of cash on cheaper chinese knockoff pedals, and I have also spent real money on quality built pedals.

    Every stinkin’ time I buy a cheap $35-$40 pedal, I end up spending more money in the long run because I ALWAYS end up purchasing the real deal before too long.

    So if I only have $40 to spend, I COULD buy another joyo, donner, or mooer etc,
    OR I could be patient and put $40 aside in a piggy bank every paycheck and eventually spend $150-200 on a the real deal version of whatever cheap pedal I’m tempted by.
    Cuz you know what? I am going to end up wanting the real deal anyway.
     
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  10. Jockabilly

    Jockabilly Synchromatic

    Age:
    47
    593
    Sep 15, 2018
    Argyll
    Ah that is another psychological effect that we humans are prone to and that manufacturers and salesmen take full advantage of. No matter if someone could prove to us that our 'budget' product (Knock-off if you will) was actually made of all the same materials by exactly the same workers to exactly the same standard in the same factory there will always be a little corner of the psyche screaming quietly at us "But it doesn't say 'Brand X' on the label!" and therefore it can't be as good.
     
  11. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    It’s not a psychological defect to recognize that a Maxon delay or a mystery brain is better than a mooer delay. It’s just a reality.
    It’s not a brain tick that convinces me that the real deal is usually better than a fake. It’s my ears.
     
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  12. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tucson
    Admin Post
    I have to agree. Overall, one usually gets what they pay for.
     
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  13. Jockabilly

    Jockabilly Synchromatic

    Age:
    47
    593
    Sep 15, 2018
    Argyll
    That may be so in the instances you relate @calebaaron666 and those devices may be totally different and of a very significant difference in quality of audio. I don't know and so I can't possibly comment but that is not the point I was making. The point I was making is that we are generally susceptible to psychological tricks which mean that, even if the goods were identical we will still believe that the one we are told is of a superior quality is genuinely of superior quality. You may be particularly talented and therefore not susceptible to the psychology used in marketing but I know that I am certainly not and, even when I genuinely know it is 'snake oil' it's still hard to ignore it.

    I would say here that I did not say anywhere that it was a Psychological Defect or Brain tick as you put it. It is simply that the human brain (At least those who aren't particularly gifted) are wired a certain way which business has used to it's advantage ever since modern marketing techniques were devised. You only have to dip a toe into 'Cold Reading' techniques, magic tricks and marketing psychology to know that there are certain aspects of the human mind that can be tricked.
     
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  14. blueruins

    blueruins Country Gent

    May 28, 2013
    Savannah, GA
    Then there are those people who refuse to tip...don’t get me started!
     
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  15. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    Oh NO!
    There was a whole thread about whether it was okay to not tip on the TDPRI forum a little while back. I was shocked and appalled by the crap I read there!
    I wanted to weep for mankind. :(
     
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  16. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    I am pretty amazing, but that’s neither here not there ;)
    You said Psychological Effect not defect. I said defect.
    I’d argue that the snake oil is being rubbed by the imitators making a profit by selling people cheaper made imitations by telling people it’s AS good as the original. When it’s just not.
     
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  17. blueruins

    blueruins Country Gent

    May 28, 2013
    Savannah, GA
    Anyone who sells a product will recognize that there is a large element of psychology in almost everything.
    It’s a two way street and not as nefarious as it’s made out to be.
    Most people need to believe they are spending their money on something novel and worthwhile.
    Think about how boring this forum would be if we weren’t trying to convince ourselves and one another how brilliant and necessary our gear purchases were.
    I bet less than 30% of the crap we believe or say is real:)
     
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  18. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    Totally! I was tempted by a gain pedal called the Werewolf simply cuz there was a werewolf painted on it, even though I have no need for a gain pedal.
    I’m a sucker for pictures of Werewolves.
    I suffer from Lycanthropy. ;)
     
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  19. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Synchromatic

    585
    May 20, 2016
    Australia
    Well, I really must come in on this one.

    Because, your experience is exactly opposite to mine.
    I too have spent amazingly small amounts on cheaper pedals - joyo, caline and mooer but the only equipment failures I have had were on high end originals (if you believe the originals weren't influenced by Asian products to begin with).

    Visual Sound H2O - Op amp went in the unit which was replaced. Eventually it just died on the chorus side.

    MXR Dyna comp - just died and for the cost not worth repairing.
    Wampler Ego compressor - gave up eventually.

    I for one do not believe these Asian versions are in fact inferior and economically I would be way in front if I had used these instead of the " original" item.

    By the way, the first pedal I saw die on stage was a EHX Big Muff used by the other guitar player in the band years ago. THAT was put down to the fact that at that time EHX had farmed out manufacture to Asia and only assembled the pedals in the US. So much for protection of production and employment by that company. :)
     
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  20. wildeman

    wildeman Gretschified

    May 10, 2015
    norcal
    No buy? No sell.......its so easy!!! No discussion.......
     
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