breaking newzz: EHX sues the bastages of Moorer and WINSZZZ!

Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by TV the Wired Turtle, Apr 11, 2019.

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  1. TV the Wired Turtle

    TV the Wired Turtle Gretschified

    Jul 25, 2009
    so cal
    Oh yessssth, justice was served to those vulterous cloners; Moorer. Mike Matthews took them to court
    and their own country found them guilty of stealing.

    read about it here:

    slow clap meme.jpg
  2. Sabato

    Sabato Gretschie

    Mar 22, 2019
    "The rip-off was so blatant that the Moore code still sported the EHX copyright notice"

    Many years ago, computer chip maker Digital Equipment had their chips routinely stolen by the USSR, so in the micro-etch they inserted:
    "DEC - When you care to steal the very best" ...
  3. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    A Chinese court and he that is impressive.
    Good for MM. I had no idea the plagiarism was so obvious. I was always under the assumption Mooer tweaked the "known" circuits like everyone else.
    sh4rkbyt3, Ando, audept and 1 other person like this.
  4. Henry

    Henry Gretschified

    Apr 9, 2014
    That's great! Don't get the Amazon reference though, I'm no fan of price controls.
    Dave-B likes this.
  5. Gretschmen65

    Gretschmen65 Synchromatic

    May 20, 2016
    I think the company you refer to is Mooer.
    Unfortunately from your perspective the article makes the point that:

    "While it is nearly impossible to protect a circuit, you can protect code."

    It refers to stealing software not pedal circuits.

    God forbid that pedal makers should be persecuted for taking someone else's circuit and making some insignificant changes and then marketing the modified item as some stroke of intellectual brilliance.

    How many of the "big boutique " names in pedal design (read theft) would exist if they couldn't take a design from Boss, Maxon or Ibanez etc. , and, make some insignificant changes to these circuits to kick start and maintain their "industry"?
    LeapyearGuitar and ruger9 like this.
  6. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Country Gent

    Mar 6, 2014
    Phoenix, AZ
    What I really wanna know is...
    Is it Moo-ehrr, Moe-rh or just More?
    dak55 and calebaaron666 like this.
  7. drmilktruck

    drmilktruck Gretschified

    May 17, 2009
    Plymouth, MN
    Whoever makes Moorer pedals makes Donner and other brands. Good cheap pedals.

    However stealing code is definitely a problem.
    Philtertronic and Robbie like this.
  8. loudnlousy

    loudnlousy Friend of Fred

    Oct 18, 2015
    Hildesheim, Germany
    No one should get away with stealing the brainchild of another.
  9. thunder58

    thunder58 I Bleed Orange

    Dec 23, 2010
    tappan ny
    This is fantastic news . My ship has come in .

    FOR SALE :

    *** Law suite edition ***

    Excellent condition
    MOORER Tender Octaver octave pedal
    Hardly used , mint condition
    Original Box
    Buyer pays shipping
    Lower 48 only
    Aking $1200 , negotiable ( no low ballers )

    Attached Files:

    rcboals, swivel, Benturner83 and 7 others like this.
  10. TV the Wired Turtle

    TV the Wired Turtle Gretschified

    Jul 25, 2009
    so cal
    "Good Cheap pedals"... is that like Jumbo Shrimp?
    Robbie and Jelly Roll Horton like this.
  11. Jockabilly

    Jockabilly Synchromatic

    Sep 15, 2018
    It is interesting that you can't easily copyright a circuit design but you can copyright code. You could argue that code in a binary computer based device is essentially like circuitry in that there may only be one way to do a particular thing in code just as one may find only one 'ideal' way to create a valve amplifier circuit and so someone can claim to arrive at exactly the same code to do the exact same thing. I am guessing that the 'blatant' copy including original copyright notice is what clinched the ruling.

    I wonder just how many amplifier and effect designers actually start from nothing and design 'ground up' rather than starting with someone else's product and 'tweaking' it a little here and there to make it at least appear to be all their own work.
  12. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    Code is written, like music or a novel. The individual notes and words aren't protected, but the combinations can be.

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
    calebaaron666 and Jockabilly like this.
  13. pmac11

    pmac11 Country Gent

    Mar 4, 2018
    Toronto, Ontario
    The first Marshall amps never would have existed.

    Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
  14. Henry

    Henry Gretschified

    Apr 9, 2014
    "You must be strong like prawn, not weak like shrimp!" - Kahn, King of the Hill
  15. Jockabilly

    Jockabilly Synchromatic

    Sep 15, 2018
    @pmac11 I understand what you say but the point I was making is that code is kind of like electrical paths, circuits and operations in that the 'words' are designed to do particular things and so it could be argued that, in order to do certain desired operations there may be very few, or no, options in the code that you use and so you could argue that you didn't steal the code but merely arrived at the same code in order to get your device to carry out the operation you wished.

    That is - If, in order to run a particular program the term 'run' is essential then using that term can't really be considered theft it is just using a basic command. It would be like stopping anyone else from using particular electrical components simply because you use those components in your design. Code isn't like language as such. It is more like a way of re-routing digital circuits on the fly in order to generate results you desire to achieve. Unlike 'real' language or music it is a construct to manipulate hundreds/thousands/millions of switches.

    I am really trying hard to explain what I mean here but I'm not really sure I know quite what I mean myself :D:confused::):(o_O:confused::D
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    Robbie and pmac11 like this.
  16. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    Good news but... stealing computer code for guitar pedals is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to the Chinese. They've been stealing intellectual property from the US for 20 years and it gets scarier by the day.
    There are so many counterfeit products out there - microphones, Iphones, guitars, etc. It's good to finally see someone taking action to stop it. Shure & Sennheiser filed a suit a few weeks ago. We finally have a president trying to stop it as well (and no I'm not being political so please don't start a bash fest).
    blueruins likes this.
  17. blueruins

    blueruins Country Gent

    May 28, 2013
    Savannah, GA
    This discussion is a great illustration of how far the respect for intellectual property has deteriorated over the last 30 years.
    People give away the golden goose to the person who offers them the cheapest omelette.
    Gretschtim1 likes this.
  18. calebaaron666

    calebaaron666 Country Gent

    Aug 15, 2018
    Portland, Maine
    I just wrote an incredible essay, but erased it because, while it was genius and inspired, it was too political for GT.
    I will say it’s up to us as consumers to decide who we give our hard earned money to; people/companies with principles, or ripoffs.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    pmac11 and Jockabilly like this.
  19. Synchro

    Synchro The artist formerly known as: Synchro Staff Member

    Jun 2, 2008
    Admin Post
    Kudos to EHX. I love the company and love their stuff. I love that they had to moxie to take on these ripoff artists.

    A circuit is hard to protect. The beloved Fender amps, upon which much of the industry was built, came from circuitas Leo Fender copied from tube manuals. That was legal, and ethical. Not all things are patentable. Shapes, as a rule, are not patentable in and of themselves. No one can claim round dinner plates as an exclusive intellectual property. Have an amp with Bass, Treble and Middle controls is not patentable.

    Software, OTOH, is more like a written book and can be copyrighted. There’s a difference, because a copyright is just that, a right to make copies. Copies can be licensed, and Mooer could have licensed EHX’s software, if EHX chose to consent.

    Many pedals, these days, are simply packaged DSPs. The paint job varies, the code varies, but the hardware is identical. My much admired Catalinbread Topanga is simply a packaged and programmed Spin DSP. The thing that makes it a Surf juggernaut is the code. Copy the code, and you’ve stolen the intellectual property which adds value and makes the product viable. Without the code, it’s a simple preamp.
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