Anyone try the new solid state twins or deluxe reverbs?

Discussion in 'Ampage Area' started by freddyfingers, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. Ricochet

    Ricochet I Bleed Orange

    Nov 13, 2009
    Monkey Island
    I like the idea, but it does raise a few questions for me.

    Why is the Tone-master almost 4 times the price of a Champion 100? If it's 4 times as Fender-y what was the point of the C100? If the Tone-master technology is fastly superior why just offer one amp model? Why not a complete Fender Suite. Have they checked out the competition lately?(Boss Katana)
    Waxhead, MKunie and MotorCentaur like this.
  2. Henry

    Henry Gretschified

    Apr 9, 2014
    Cuz it says Fender. Let's be realistic, if the front said digitech or acme, half the people considering it wouldn't bother trying. I'm just as bad - I refuse to buy anything that says Fender on it.
    Waxhead and Ricochet like this.
  3. Hammerhands

    Hammerhands Country Gent

    Aug 26, 2011
    I would like to say I will try to keep an open mind, but, really, pfft.
  4. S.R.Cash

    S.R.Cash Gretschie

    Aug 29, 2019
    Ontario, Canada
    I think for what it is, the Champion 40 I had for awhile is a damned fine little amp. I know I spent the money on a Blues Cube, but this just seems horribly not worth it for me. However ... if the price comes down, and they model a Tweed Champ ...
    MKunie likes this.
  5. So I uptakes it not many have taken the plunge to even drive to a store to play it.
  6. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    If they are anything like the Roland Blues Cubes, they will be VERY good. I'm a die-hard tube guy, and now use a Roland Blues Cube Artist with my band, it does the job VERY well, with MUCH less weight, alot of versatility, and it's one of those amps that simply sounds good no matter where you put the knobs... which I can NOT say about any Fender I have owned. Also, unlike most tube amps, it sounds good at any volume.... no more "bringing the right size tube amp for the room so you can get it up into it's 'sweet spot' without blowing everyone away" ... So if Fender opened up the Rolands to "have a look", I expect very good things from these new amps.

    As fo feel and latency... with the BCA, there is NO latency. As for feel, while I will be honest and tell you it's 100% as good as a tube amp, it's at least 90% (probably more) of the way there, and is VERY touch-repsonsive. Play soft, it's clean. Hit it hard, it crunches up. Just like a tube amp.

    Other modelers I have owned (and the BCA might not be a digital modeler, it might be a transistor amp, and frankly, I don't know the differences), feel OK, and don't sound like an amp- they sound like a RECORDING of an amp. the BCA sounds, feels, and reacts like a tube amp. I know most tube snobs aren't ready for that yet, and ESPECIALLY FENDER tube amp snobs, lol, but the Roland stuff is the real deal.
    Gretschmen65 and S.R.Cash like this.
  7. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    The Cyber Twin was suppose to be a complete Fender suite plus some other stuff. After all the hype players found out it wasn't very good.
    Waxhead likes this.
  8. TSims1

    TSims1 Gretschified

    Jun 18, 2013

    That was also like 15 years ago though too. Things have come a LONG way since then.

    I’m actually hopeful/optimistic about the new Fender offerings. I think think there is a chance that they may be incredible. I still just haven’t seen one anywhere to try yet.
    Tony65x55 likes this.
  9. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    If it is digital and changes an analog signal to digital, processes and then back to analog it has some latency. The question is "Is it enough to bother you?" In your case maybe not to others it may be a problem.
    They use to say that people couldn't hear a 1 DB change in level but that theory was blown out of the water when digital audio became a reality. Same thing with latency in Msec. Some people can feel that while playing a digital keyboard into the computer to trigger software synths. I can feel it and hear it on playback as it sounds like I'm just a tad bit behind the beat. I notice it on some songs more than others. String pads and chords generally are not a problem. Quick stabs and fast runs seem to alter the feel to the point where I might have to slide parts of the performance forward a bit to make it feel more locked into the track. This is not just my playing but others who come in to record and use the equipment. I have really nice RME interfaces which are the best for lowest latency.
    Every single piece of digital gear has latency. Most musical instrument companies don't even bother printing it in their spec sheets figuring it's better to not even mention it. For many it may never be an issue. For others it's a gradual thing where as you play for a while something seems weird but you just can't put your finger on it. I was in the "others" category. Still some may feel it while they are trying it out and decide right then that it isn't for them. To me it's like when you use a wireless guitar system in a big room and as you go farther towards the back of the room you start feeling the lag. That's not electrical lag but it sounds and feels the same way. With digital drums it sounds almost like a flam to me.
    People may want to argue about this and say we're crazy but it's a real thing for some of us.
    Waxhead likes this.
  10. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    I agree and I will try one out but after years of dealing with this all the way up to the Kemper stuff I'm not as hopeful as you but we'll see.
  11. Tony65x55

    Tony65x55 Gretschified

    Sep 23, 2011
    The 'Shwa, Ontario, Canada
    Part of the reason is a Jensen Neo speaker specifically designed for the amp and a pine cab - $220 CDN from my cab builder and he's cheap. The Champion 100 is half the price, know any pro players gigging it? And perhaps if this is a success there will be more? Let's see what they really sound like.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    Ricochet likes this.
  12. Tony65x55

    Tony65x55 Gretschified

    Sep 23, 2011
    The 'Shwa, Ontario, Canada
    Still unavailable at my music store - they are expected this week. I'll try one out as soon as I can get my hands on one.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    TSims1 likes this.
  13. ruger9

    ruger9 Country Gent

    Nov 1, 2008
    IDK that the Roland Blues Cube series IS digital. Maybe it's just "solid state", like the old Tech 21 Trademark amp everyone has loved for years...

    And I'm well versed with "immediate" response: I owned a Dr. Z and currently have a Bad Cat incoming. The Blues Cube Artist has no latency, whatever it's technology is.
    Gretschmen65 likes this.
  14. dmunson

    dmunson Gretschie

    Dec 19, 2015
    Charlotte, NC
    SS seems to progress in leaps and bounds, so I'm anxious to see what these amps can do. But, it will be hard to talk myself into that price range for any SS amp.
  15. sleeperNY

    sleeperNY Gretschie

    Jun 18, 2008
    central NY
    I just got home from an out doors gig using the TM Twin. I played my 6122-59 and it sounded beyond my wildest expectations. The feel of the real Twin was there and I couldn't be happier. For me at least it is a keeper.

    ronbo, Groutsch, blueruins and 2 others like this.
  16. EdwardsKim

    EdwardsKim Gretschie

    May 11, 2013
    Chicago, IL
    The Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb are out of this world good. Really. The Deluxe Reverb also weighs... 24POUNDS!!! The Twin weighs 33 pounds or so. I sold one yesterday to a fellow GT member and he took home the Twin.
  17. Tony65x55

    Tony65x55 Gretschified

    Sep 23, 2011
    The 'Shwa, Ontario, Canada
    Gee, it sounds as if you liked it? Thanks for the report.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  18. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    I think it is a solid state amp.
    ruger9 likes this.
  19. Waxhead

    Waxhead Country Gent

    Aug 30, 2014
    yeah I agree Tony it's always good to test out these new products and decide for yourself. If they inspire you to play great :)

    For me solid state and modelling technology has not come a long way past 10 yrs - it's been pretty static in terms of tone quality and latency imo.

    I recently got interested to test out the Roland Stage and Artist and Katana SS amps. There was huge hype around them so I wondered if they really were a step up from my old Roland Cube 60. After testing I concluded.

    - Stage and Artist sounded just a touch better than Cube 60 but less versatile and x3 more expensive.

    - Katana sounded no better than Cube 60 but cost x2 more.

    I've never been a fan of the Fender Champs (tube) or the Champions (SS) and never liked any of Fender's SS amps so far. I still think Roland make the best SS amps.

    And SS amp makers and modelers are still making the exact same claims for the past 20 yrs about their allegedly better performance in cloning tube amps.

    SS amps sound and play differently to tube amps imo and some people prefer them - all good imo. If SS amps / modelers inspire you great.

    Punters at gigs will surely never know the difference. Most crowd punters don't know the difference between a bass and a guitar (nor do they care) so beats me why people keep raising that :)

    I would much prefer though if amp makers were honest about that and marketed their amps based on the inspiring SS tones those amps have and not continue with the endless BS that they sound and play like tube amps.

    Or at least not continue with the BS until am amp maker really has nailed a tube amp with an SS clone. I do not expect that it in my life time but I live in hope with an open mind :)

    If someone ever does make a cheap light weight SS amp that sounds as great as a Fender Twin or a Mesa Mark V through the whole gain range then it'll be a day for celebration imo. It will save us tube amp lovers a lot of money :)
    Tony65x55, Gretschtim1 and Bertotti like this.
  20. Gretschtim1

    Gretschtim1 Country Gent

    Dec 4, 2012
    Dundalk, Md
    I agree - I think Roland makes some of the best sounding SS amps around and they have never tried to compare them to tube amps . They let the amps stand on their own merits. I've used the Jazz chorus amps, Carvin, Polytone, Kustom, Acoustic and Sunn transistor amps and got some good results out of them but I couldn't and wouldn't compare them to tube amps because they have a totally different sound. I think amp companies should be trying to find new sounds like Mesa Boogie did back in the 70' & 80s. But instead they keep trying to convince us that their latest digital modeling amps sound exactly like my 50 year old Vox and Fender amps. Sorry but I'm just not that stupid and my ears tell me a different story....:D.
    Tony65x55 and Waxhead like this.
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