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Discussion in 'Fred's Barcalounge' started by thunder58, Jul 16, 2019.
Hundreds of thousands of of recording engineers, artists, and producers would beg to differ
....and hundreds of thousands of them would agree.
I've never liked a record or enjoyed watching a band because of the "quality" of the gear. Only weirdo geeks have. And that comes from me....a weirdo geek.
No doubt a good instrument can inspire you to play. I definitely agree with that and it's one reason I think gear matters. The instruments I buy are all guitars I enjoy playing--they feel good in my hands and they sound good.
But a great guitar will not automatically make someone play for hours or get better. I know too many guys with great/expensive equipment who aren't good and don't sound good. I always tell a beginner to make sure they get a guitar that is setup properly and sounds good to them.
Most engineers and producers want instruments to be in tune and sound good/right for the song. They don't care whether it's a Lentz or a Mexican Tele. At least in my experience.
I dunno that I agree w/ the first sentence there...
No, I'd guess you liked them because of the musical content and the sounds. Both of which are impacted by the difference between the gear being used way more often than not. That's not meant to say that good records can't be made w/ whatever you have on hand, but given the time and choice maybe 1% of the recordings I was ever involved in making was just any old instrument/amp/mic/preamp/compressor/EQ/effect and those were w/o exception done that way because they had no choice... The reason being that the gear differs in feel, response, and sound, even comparing 2 of the same model and manufacture items to each other.
I think the time of you get what you pay for is going away a bit, but not gone. Some companies are just better and more reliable than others but cost, isn't always the driving force.
I generally think you still have a lot of you get what you pay for but there are exceptions and that's when research and buyer beware comes to play. I have one Joyo product the AtomiC, nice little amp and still seems to be running well a couple of years into it now.
@thunder58 out of curiosity have you emailed Joyo just to see what their response is?
[QUOTE="lp_bruce, post: 1184844, member: 22437"}]
Most engineers and producers want instruments to be in tune and sound good/right for the song. They don't care whether it's a Lentz or a Mexican Tele. At least in my experience.[/QUOTE]
Not sure where you recorded, but that runs contrary to my experience in 10 years I had doing so professionally, FWIW. Edit: You're spot on w/ the sounds being the determining factor, but I thought the thread's premise was that all gear is the same, not that you don't necessarily need expensive/prestigious gear to get cool sounds. On the latter I totally agree.
To state clearly, my argument really has nothing to do w/ relative price or perceived prestige of the gear in question or what's "better" or "nicer", that's 100% in the eye of the beholder, it's that just about all gear is actually different regardless of those factors.
Fair enough. I can only speak for those I've interacted with.
I've recorded at five or six studios in the Detroit area (Tempermill, Ghetto Recorders, Rock Hill, RV Audio Lab, Soundscape, some others) and worked a range of engineers/producers. Their level of interest in gear varies in my experience, but is focused on the end result and not the gear (in my experience). So, for example, a producer might suggest a "Les Paul" sound or a specific pedal, but they don't particularly care how you get to that sound they are after.
I recorded a lead at Ghetto (with Jim Diamond) and I always used some version of Tube Screamer on it live. We recorded it a couple of times and he didn't like what he was hearing or how it was sitting in the mix. So he pulled out a Rat (a pedal I've never really bonded with) and we gave that a shot. And it sounded great and that's what ended up on the album. There have certainly been other times producers/engineers have suggested specific pedals/amps and I've learned to trust their instincts or at least give it a shot. Jim's instincts were pretty much always on point.
Funny, the one time I remember a producer giving me grief about an instrument was recording acoustic parts for an album about 10 or 12 years ago. At the time I was using a Yamaha (that I loved until an amp fell on it) and he told me to come back with a Martin. Which I thought was kind of jerkish (well....he was a jerk). I didn't and I recorded the first track with the Yamaha. When we went in to listen to the tracks, he eventually turned to me and said, "that actually sounds great." Which stunned me, because that may have been the only time he said something nice during our sessions. I haven't worked with him since.
Definitely agree, in case it isn't evident from my above post.
Yup, sorry I wasn't fully comprehending the entirety of your comment before responding so added the second sentence once my sleep deprived brain caught up You detail some great examples of exactly what I was trying to convey myself. There are a lot of different ways to get to a "good"/the "right" sound, and it seems like the very rare exception where the gear used doesn't play a pretty significant part in that. If I had to choose between great players and an unlimited stash of gear to make music w/ I'd obviously choose the players, but to say it's all the player isn't true in my experience.
It's not always the holy grail type gear that is going to get you where you're looking to go either. I've encountered many instances, whether in the studio or since where the "cheap" stuff was exactly the right piece of gear, both on sound and feel. Some of my favorite guitars continue to be ones that would earn zero e-peen points w/ the majority of gear centric types. On a personal level it's so entirely not about that for me I can get slightly triggered when people start assuming that that's the only reason someone may want many types of different gear or that ego is the only reason to buy a more expensive piece of kit. There are definitely some guitars/amps/pedals that I've acquired purely based on irrational worship of them, but the significant majority of the time it's looking for something different than what I have and exploring the possibilities of them that gets me excited enough to buy them.
Well said and I completely agree.
Now that I think more about this I’m reminded of those times when I’ve played through someone else’s gear.
Sometimes it just sounds so awful I can’t even think of what to play.
Feel and tone can really affect your choices on the instrument.
But we pay for risk and expectations, not certainty. Meaning, when you bought your Joyo, it was based on the expected life of the pedal, not the actual future life, which we don't know. Different people price that risk differently. Someone going on tour will probably put a much higher price on that risk, and pay much more for reliability. Someone on a budget experimenting as a home hobby will out a much lower value on that risk.
Geez Rich - you got good value out of your Joyo flanger for $35 imo.
For $35 I don't think it was a lemon - products are usually cheap for a reason.
Yes gear is always gear - it is what it is.
In general (but not always) you get what you pay for.
All man made products range from rubbish thru to excellent depending on your point of view.
My excellent could be your rubbish and vice versa today and ...... the opposite next next.
We all have different experiences and preferences.
For me, I've learned not to waste my time with el cheapo music gear - and I've owned plenty of it don't worry
For me it's a false economy.
I can now afford good quality music gear and it works out both cheaper and more satisfying for me in the end.
Nothing wrong with some excellent rubbish!
I'm proud of Martin's, German immigrant made good.
No I haven't , great idea . Thanks
I'll add a little twist...
HANDWIRED amps. Not because they sound better, not because of "mojo", not because of the exclusivity of them being more expensive, just simply because I can fix them myself.
I have no issues with the tone or even reliability of PCB amps, however, when something DOES go wrong, it's nice to be able to NOT take it to a tech, and fix it yourself. In that instance, gear is NOT gear.
Where are you guys getting all these Pintos from?
Ha. An acquaintance of mine (who runs an art fair I've played a few times) drives a Pinto. I always chuckle when I see it.