[rcboals]

Just got 2011 sparkle jet stock filtertrons the treble is dark not bright and spanky like I would like.
1. The tone switch has two very small looking caps see pic attatched.
2. The question is when the tone switch is in the middle and neither cap is in the circuit and I have it on the bridge pickup is that the maximum treble it is going to have?
3.There is very little difference between all the way down or in the middle as far as treble.
4. If changing caps out would give me a little more treble I would do it since it is an easy job. If the treble I get in the middle position without any caps in the circuit is as trebly as I can get then I will leave it alone.
5. I PM'd Tavo but he hasn't responded within 15 minutes.

[tartanphantom]

Originally Posted by rcboals

Just got 2011 sparkle jet.
2. The question is when the tone switch is in the middle and neither cap is in the circuit and I have it on the bridge pickup is that the maximum treble it is going to have?

This is correct. the middle position on the tone switch removes all capacitors from the circuit-- the tone you get is directly from the pickups. Maximum treble. Changing the cap values won't affect the middle position at all.

[stevo]

But you can adjust the values of the caps to improve your tone in the cut positions. There is a reason some people call it the "mud switch".

[rcboals]

After some research it appears that a possible solution is TV Jones Classics. I had a 6121with TV Classics and don't remember not having enough treble and it was plenty bright. Any other solutions recommendations from my learned Gretsch brothers appreciated

[tartanphantom]

Originally Posted by rcboals

Any other solutions recommendations from my learned Gretsch brothers appreciated

Sure. Make sure that your amp's treble knob is set to this:

[Lizardkinged]

Dont just swap pickups out yet. try this

Treble bleed mod. (I dunno if you play with your master volume open all day, but if you dont and you go below 2/3's you will lose some treble. If not enough... Try a 1meg linear taper on the master volume instead of the 500k.

after installing the 1 meg, you MAY wanna change cap values on the switch. (personally I dont like the idea of indexed tone settings even a six rotory switch variax type deal) I prefer the variable roll-off of a knob... but thats here nor there.

You're lucky to have access panels, This sucks when working on a hollow not being able to just get right into it. so much prep.

[gbobshipps]

I agree with the 1 meg pot for volume. Start there. You could also test some super low value caps acrossed your input jack from hot to ground. Try a 1, 2, or 3 nF cap and see how that moves the resonant peak of your pickups. You could just hardwire it to the jack or put it on your 1 meg Volume from hot to ground. This would function as sort of a master treble EQ. The value of your cap choice is completely subject to the entirety of your rig. Your chords, pedals, and amp all play a role in how they will sound, so yyou have to test caps with your entire rig - in context. Nobody can really predict for you what a given value will sound like without physically testing it; all we can do is guess. I'd start with a 2nF and go down in value for brighter and up for darker. The misunderstanding many folks have is that no cap will sound the brightest. It will if you have a rig that happens to push the "right" frequencies, but if your amp, chords, pedals, pickups etc. roll off below those frequencies you would gain by having no cap, then you need to move your resonant treble frequency down into the range of capability for your rig. Then you will get that 'spank' and 'jangle' you are looking for. If you don't like the results, you are out the cost of a pot and/or a few caps - $10-15 bucks. You could also try a no load 1 meg audio pot if you can find one. Good luck.

[rcboals]

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

Dont just swap pickups out yet. try this

Treble bleed mod. (I dunno if you play with your master volume open all day, but if you dont and you go below 2/3's you will lose some treble. If not enough... Try a 1meg linear taper on the master volume instead of the 500k.

after installing the 1 meg, you MAY wanna change cap values on the switch. (personally I dont like the idea of indexed tone settings even a six rotory switch variax type deal) I prefer the variable roll-off of a knob... but thats here nor there.

You're lucky to have access panels, This sucks when working on a hollow not being able to just get right into it. so much prep.

Originally Posted by gbobshipps

I agree with the 1 meg pot for volume. Start there. You could also test some super low value caps acrossed your input jack from hot to ground. Try a 1, 2, or 3 nF cap and see how that moves the resonant peak of your pickups. You could just hardwire it to the jack or put it on your 1 meg Volume from hot to ground. This would function as sort of a master treble EQ. The value of your cap choice is completely subject to the entirety of your rig. Your chords, pedals, and amp all play a role in how they will sound, so yyou have to test caps with your entire rig - in context. Nobody can really predict for you what a given value will sound like without physically testing it; all we can do is guess. I'd start with a 2nF and go down in value for brighter and up for darker. The misunderstanding many folks have is that no cap will sound the brightest. It will if you have a rig that happens to push the "right" frequencies, but if your amp, chords, pedals, pickups etc. roll off below those frequencies you would gain by having no cap, then you need to move your resonant treble frequency down into the range of capability for your rig. Then you will get that 'spank' and 'jangle' you are looking for. If you don't like the results, you are out the cost of a pot and/or a few caps - $10-15 bucks. You could also try a no load 1 meg audio pot if you can find one. Good luck.

Those are things I could do easily enough.

1. When the tone switch is in the middle position and no caps are involved in the circuit.
2. The volumes are all wide open and I have it on the bridge pickup is that treble tone the most I am going to get out of these pickups?

[tartanphantom]

Originally Posted by rcboals

Those are things I could do easily enough.

1. When the tone switch is in the middle position and no caps are involved in the circuit.
2. The volumes are all wide open and I have it on the bridge pickup is that treble tone the most I am going to get out of these pickups?

Volume Pot values have a distinct effect on the brightness of the guitar. Even if the tone switch is in the middle position with no caps in effect, the value of the pots will change the voicing. The higher the pot value, the less that natural treble will be rolled off. In other words,

pot values=
100K-->250K-->300K-->500K-->1Meg
from darkest to brightest.

a 1Meg volume pot wide open will still be brighter than a 500K pot wide open.

[Lizardkinged]

so yes. Wide open its the most you can get currently. A treble bleed mod would help if your not cranked on the master vol @ all times.

But a 1 meg will really really brighten things up. I put them on PAF's from time to time for guy's who aren't totally gibson guys all the time, on PAF's it also gives the mids a bit more attention.

[rcboals]

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

Dont just swap pickups out yet. try this

Treble bleed mod. (I dunno if you play with your master volume open all day, but if you dont and you go below 2/3's you will lose some treble. If not enough... Try a 1meg linear taper on the master volume instead of the 500k.

after installing the 1 meg, you MAY wanna change cap values on the switch. (personally I dont like the idea of indexed tone settings even a six rotory switch variax type deal) I prefer the variable roll-off of a knob... but thats here nor there.

You're lucky to have access panels, This sucks when working on a hollow not being able to just get right into it. so much prep.

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

so yes. Wide open its the most you can get currently. A treble bleed mod would help if your not cranked on the master vol @ all times.

But a 1 meg will really really brighten things up. I put them on PAF's from time to time for guy's who aren't totally gibson guys all the time, on PAF's it also gives the mids a bit more attention.

Sent you a PM

[rcboals]

Thanks to Lizardkinged for getting me heading in the right direction. The problem is common to Gretsch and others when you roll of your master volume you lose treble in my case more than I like. Don't notice this at all with my master volume on my Guild X500. So, it appears the solution is the treble bleed mod to the master voluem pot. Now the dilemma which way to go with a .001 cap and maybe with resistor simple solder job either way. TV Jones sells one (pic below) and uses the cap and resistor others say to do it without the resistor and just use the .001cap. Excellent inforamation here http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/volumepot2.shtml Just google "treble bleed mod Gretsch" and you wil find what you need to know.

[amx05462]

if you decide to switch the caps the less value thr more treble.. i didnt like the ones gretsch called for.. so on my 5120 i went with 005 and 010. because anything more than that was muddier than i wanted to get.. also look into the cap on your tone knob. most of my humbucker guitars had 22 caps. for more treble you have to go less value than what is on the tone knob control.

all my single coil guitars now have a 33

the gretsch diagram i have in hand says on one side of the tone switch is a 392 k and the other a 123 k. to me thats way too dark

and another one says on the tone knob there is a 22.

id change that one first to half the value to get more trebel. if you ant to see how much trebel you can get remove the cap cpmpletely and add a jumper wire. then you can go from there.

[Lizardkinged]

AMX, He has filter trons, he doesn't have gretschbuckers, his symptoms are going to result for different reasons and need a different solution.

Gretschbuckers are just naturally much darker than Filtertrons by design.

[amx05462]

possibly.... but i have gretsch filtertorns in the guitar i speak of. and thats what i did. but its just my pinion and he can pick what he wants to do.

but again thats what i did and that gretsch sounds real sweet. i sent a recording to a pro player when i finished it and he was awed...

but again he can do what he thinks is best ; ) imjust sayin what worked for me is all..

[amx05462]

http://gretschpages.com/guitars/pickups/

btw the filtertorn is a humbucker and an acceptional one at that. read the article above : )

[Lizardkinged]

Alright... well thanks for assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about pal.

I repair instruments and gear. Thats one of my trades. I know the difference between a filtertron and a PAF. I'm not sure where you got the impression I was confused... but thanks for looking out...

You didnt really read the problem / responses well enough or something. The problem isn't that caps he's using... its the way he likes using his master volume... Hence the suggestion of the treble bleed, or 1 meg pot. Has nothing to do w/ the cap values. We spend the middle section of the thread trouble-shooting, the problem was solved about 6 posts ago. Reading and participating in the trouble-shooting section of the thread, we found the problem.

I wasn't saying your opinion was wrong (I dont even think like that) but seeing as how you didn't specify that your 5120 had filters, I assumed it was stock and the expirience being a tad less relative as Filters and PAF's are just different beasts in the first-place. Just saying... read more of the thread, and try not to assume you know who your talking to.

[rcboals]

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

Alright... well thanks for assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about pal.

I repair instruments and gear. Thats one of my trades. I know the difference between a filtertron and a PAF. I'm not sure where you got the impression I was confused... but thanks for looking out...

You didnt really read the problem / responses well enough or something. The problem isn't that caps he's using... its the way he likes using his master volume... Hence the suggestion of the treble bleed, or 1 meg pot. Has nothing to do w/ the cap values. We spend the middle section of the thread trouble-shooting, the problem was solved about 6 posts ago. Reading and participating in the trouble-shooting section of the thread, we found the problem.

I wasn't saying your opinion was wrong (I dont even think like that) but seeing as how you didn't specify that your 5120 had filters, I assumed it was stock and the expirience being a tad less relative as Filters and PAF's are just different beasts in the first-place. Just saying... read more of the thread, and try not to assume you know who your talking to.

I don't think amx04562 understood the problem anyway, problem solved thanks to you My newest Gretsch friend Lizardlnged. Thread shows how problem solved.

http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/te...lume-easy.html

[amx05462]

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

Alright... well thanks for assuming I have no idea what I'm talking about pal.

I repair instruments and gear. Thats one of my trades. I know the difference between a filtertron and a PAF. I'm not sure where you got the impression I was confused... but thanks for looking out...

You didnt really read the problem / responses well enough or something. The problem isn't that caps he's using... its the way he likes using his master volume... Hence the suggestion of the treble bleed, or 1 meg pot. Has nothing to do w/ the cap values. We spend the middle section of the thread trouble-shooting, the problem was solved about 6 posts ago. Reading and participating in the trouble-shooting section of the thread, we found the problem.

I wasn't saying your opinion was wrong (I dont even think like that) but seeing as how you didn't specify that your 5120 had filters, I assumed it was stock and the expirience being a tad less relative as Filters and PAF's are just different beasts in the first-place. Just saying... read more of the thread, and try not to assume you know who your talking to.

well i wasnt trying to p you off.. just giving my opinin is all. no need to take offense because i meant none..

as to your experience .. how am i supposed to guess that.. anyhow no offense meant ..

[Lizardkinged]

I realize your intention, but your not "supposed" to guess that I lack experience either... I still see no confusion on my part to the gretsch pickups, or your opinion.

I was just saying from the information you gave us, it wasn't exactly relative to this problem... Even if you have filtertrons in your guitar this has nothing to do w/ the switch @ that point. You gotta read carefully because threads de-rail turn into treble bleed mod sections, compton bridge sales and nocturne product questions. lol. Its a crazy forum here and all I can say is read and make no assumptions about people you cannot know.