Nail the Roland RE-301 Space Echo sounds of Brian Setzer

ikaros_swede · February 6th, 2010, 12:56 PM

....for just £18.99. Yes it is true, if you beleive what they write in the UK magazine Guitar & Bass Magazine.

"If Belcat´s designers were actually trying to emulate the sound of any of the classic tape echos, the one they chose may well have been the Roland RE-301 Space Echo-the brightness and hint of glassy fuzz in the upper mids nails the Brian Setzer tone"

From the magazine and the review of the Belcat DLY-503, a budget delay pedal for just £18.99
Well, I dont know how much we who really love Brian Setzers music and listen to it every day should consider that pedal as an option compared with the Nocturne and a really good delay effect on that.

But no matter what, I beleive it is well spendt money and a good pedal. Also, the review didnt say what guitar or amp it was tested on. Maybe a secret recepie for the Setzer-sound?

Jeff O · February 6th, 2010, 01:47 PM

FROM AN EBAY POSTING

Belcat DLY 503 Analog Delay Pedal

Used, but in VG condition. There's a slight indentation on the metal case on the output side but only noticable under close inspection. Perfect working condition.

I know a bunch of you have looked at these pedals and wondered about them.

Cost vs Sound vs Quality ?

Here goes: Made in China. Appears to be the same circuit as their purple DLY 303 only this one has an MXR-size enclosure made of thin steel alloy (hence the indentation). Does not appear to be a true bucket brigade / analog pedal. Buffered bypass and a switch that you'll want to be easy on. Pots are decent and jacks are metal. 9VDC center negative (not included).

Sounds pretty good. Some on Harmony Central say that it compares with the old Bosses. I'm not sure about that. I don't do the trippy spaceship thing and it doesn't either. I don't do the surfer, hillbilly, but it does (fairly well too). I just use it with the level set at 1/4, just enough to thicken my sound. For that it really is good. Low noise, only slightly increases when you start maxing the knobs. Keep a fresh battery in it or it will get distorted.

I took a chance on this to fill board space until I found the "perfect delay" (that I could afford, that is). It did it's job rather well, especially for my purposes. I kept it well over a year.

The BIN is $10.00 less than I paid for it.

ikaros_swede · February 6th, 2010, 02:00 PM

Well, I guess it is worth its money, both on ebay and at the local guitar shop. But I find it in some way funny that a serious guitar magazine writes like they do; "nail the sond..."

It is no big deal, I have a $100 dollar delay from Rocktronic and I think I would manage with the one from Belcat. With my luck I wouldnt hear the diffrence in a blind test.

ikaros_swede · February 6th, 2010, 08:42 PM

..and when we talk about delay-pedals. The RE-20 is a modern digital version of the Roland RE-201, is there a model simulating the RE-301?

TV the Wired Turtle · February 11th, 2010, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikaros_swede

..and when we talk about delay-pedals. The RE-20 is a modern digital version of the Roland RE-201, is there a model simulating the RE-301?

what does the RE-201 have that other echoes do not? Is it the tone of
the echo, its repeats, its inherent colorizing of the primary signal?
The flutter of the repeats?

I ask because I owned the Re-20 but I also have owned an RE-201, RE-150, TTE and several other tape echoes besides my current RE-301. It tape echo
eccentricity has only ever been its "saturated tape delay" and "wow and flutter
characteristics".. For that alone it has merit for many.. although I find that
the coloring of the dry signal is what makes it unique and how it affects the
dynamics of the amp..

just wondering.

ikaros_swede · February 11th, 2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV the Wired Turtle

what does the RE-201 have that other echoes do not? Is it the tone of
the echo, its repeats, its inherent colorizing of the primary signal?
The flutter of the repeats?

I ask because I owned the Re-20 but I also have owned an RE-201, RE-150, TTE and several other tape echoes besides my current RE-301. It tape echo
eccentricity has only ever been its "saturated tape delay" and "wow and flutter
characteristics".. For that alone it has merit for many.. although I find that
the coloring of the dry signal is what makes it unique and how it affects the
dynamics of the amp..

just wondering.

Thanks for that TV.

First I have to say that I play guitar like a 5 year old kid. Not a good one but an average 5 year old. I wouldnt spot the diffrence between my Gretsch and a broken $25 guitar even if someone hit me in the forehead with them.
Same goes probably with delay effects. I play so lousy and slow that I can play the echo my self on the guitar in between the notes and chords.... (Didnt Carl Perkins have a technique where he played the echo effect on the guitar?)

I do not know if there is a diffrence between RE-201 and RE 301. It was more of curiosity if there was a model simulating the 301.

Finaly TV, love your music and I bought your album Songs of justice. And I promise that my next investment will be the Nocturne.

TV the Wired Turtle · February 11th, 2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikaros_swede

Thanks for that TV.

First I have to say that I play guitar like a 5 year old kid. Not a good one but an average 5 year old. I wouldnt spot the diffrence between my Gretsch and a broken $25 guitar even if someone hit me in the forehead with them.
Same goes probably with delay effects. I play so lousy and slow that I can play the echo my self on the guitar in between the notes and chords.... (Didnt Carl Perkins have a technique where he played the echo effect on the guitar?)

I do not know if there is a diffrence between RE-201 and RE 301. It was more of curiosity if there was a model simulating the 301.

Finaly TV, love your music and I bought your album Songs of justice. And I promise that my next investment will be the Nocturne.

Come on man you dont play like a 5 yr old!

You got 3 chords and the truth right? That all you need according to Huddie Ledbetter.

Plus if you got a gretsch then you got two feet in the door in my book.

To answer your question in the most plain vanilla.. the Re-201 listen to
Radiohead's J.greenwood use of it in Ok Computer, very saturated and its sound on sound allows for much texture.

This is easy to chew radiohead if you are unfamiliar with their great music:

YouTube- Radiohead - Fake Plastic Trees

RE-301 space echo was redesigned to have more headroom and quieter operation using opamps instead of transistors as well as carbon film resistors instead of carbon comp. Setzer shows off its prowess here:

YouTube- Brian Setzer ...

also are you askin if Carl Perkin's performed with an echo effect or are you referring to the sun recording sessions in general where you can hear a slapback on the mix?

ps. thanks for downloading my album, that made my day!

ikaros_swede · February 12th, 2010, 02:45 PM

The "own played echo" I refer to is something I heard from a "Rockabilly session" with Carl Perkins and friends. I think there are some of it on youtube. He's talking about how he discoverd a technique where he could play like an echo-effect. Must have been very early in his career, before the recording studios..

When it comes to gear, guitars, amps and effects I think including me we all want to sound like our idols. But sometimes we come close with less money spendt on gear if we listen to our sound insted of looking at the gear. I mean, I don't become Wayne Gretzky just because I put on the same type of icehockey skates he used in his days.

But it is intresting how a thing like the tape echo have bcome an icon for many. They don't produce them anymore but people want them anyway. If Roland started producing the tape echoes again I think they would do a great success.

About your album, I really like the song One way out. The lyrics "I found you in the arms of someone now deceased" remindes me a little about Dwight Yoakams Buenas noches from a lonely room. "I cursed at the sight Of their sleeping shadows in the cold neon light In the dark morning silence I placed the gun to her head 'Cause, She wore red dresses, but now she lay dead..."

SnorkelMonkey · February 12th, 2010, 10:18 PM

The problem is wow, flutter, and the tape splice bump that comes built in with a real analog delay be it good or bad. I've not come across anything that really does it except for the real thing.

funnyorangeguitar · February 12th, 2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikaros_swede

The "own played echo" I refer to is something I heard from a "Rockabilly session" with Carl Perkins and friends. I think there are some of it on youtube. He's talking about how he discoverd a technique where he could play like an echo-effect. Must have been very early in his career, before the recording studios..

I remember this it was kind like a hammering on thing. He did it with George Harrison.

On that topic, the sound George got in that session from his hollowbady was amazing. So much presence and the delay was very authentic. All helped along by George's great playing ability of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikaros_swede

But it is intresting how a thing like the tape echo have bcome an icon for many. They don't produce them anymore but people want them anyway. If Roland started producing the tape echoes again I think they would do a great success.

I think you are right but maybe there are not so many of us who would buy them. I looked for years for a good one and came close but never did. In the interim I got a Line 6 DL-4 which models the Space Echo pretty well and is solid state. That was an interim measure probably 6 years ago and didn't really try hard to find one after that.

A bit of George goodness from that Carl Perkins and freinds session....

YouTube- Carl perkins & Friends No:1 -...

funnyorangeguitar · February 12th, 2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnorkelMonkey

The problem is wow, flutter, and the tape splice bump that comes built in with a real analog delay be it good or bad. I've not come across anything that really does it except for the real thing.

I found that the Line 6 DL-4 does it pretty well. I looked around a long time for a Space Echo and this green box filled the job vacancy. Could not be without it now. I still only use about 10% of its capability but for tube, tape, multihead affects it works pretty well. I cover Mr Setzer's version of Sleepwalk (like 98% of Gretsch players) and the DL-4 works pretty much as Mr Setzer's Roland. Took about 10 minutes to get the setup right first time. Click and hold the target foot switch and it is locked in.

There seems to have been questions around the reliability of this device but I have never had a problem and it has been used, abused, dropped kicked, doused in liquids but still keeps going...

http://line6.com/dl4/

SnorkelMonkey · February 12th, 2010, 11:32 PM

I had a DL-4. They are useful no doubt but they really don't compare to the real thing.

ruger9 · February 13th, 2010, 07:39 AM

I can't compare it to a real tape echo, but lots of people who CAN have said the Empress Vintage Modified Super Delay is as close as is possible to get with digital. I love my VMSD, definitely a cut above every other "tape-sounding delay" I've owned.

Some people have even SOLD THEIR TTEs after getting the VMSD...

The Nocturne + VMSD gives me EXACTLY what I've been trying to acheive all these years. Now, the only part of the "formula" I'm missing is that damned blonde bassman!

SnorkelMonkey · February 13th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Some of these simulators are really fantastic and come very close to the real thing. In person you can tell the difference though. On recording or maybe farther back from the stage you might not so much but up close and personal you can. The mechanical hiccups are missed whether you want them or not and those hiccups are apart of the flavor of that particular unit. But it's really more the sound up close that gives them away. It's like comparing Leslie simulators to a real Leslie. They do the job and some really do the job well but nothing is going to substitute for the real thing in the same room. With that I have a pile of analog and digital delays along side my tape units.

charlie chitlins · February 13th, 2010, 04:03 PM

I've got a buddy who is a serious tone junkie, and a SERIOUS echo gourmet.
I bet he has 10 Echo-Plexes.
He also owns a recording studio and you've probably heard stuff he's done.
When I asked him what would get me the best slap-back without breaking the bank, he said Danelectro Dan-Echo, hands down.
Just sayin'....

SnorkelMonkey · February 13th, 2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie chitlins

he said Danelectro Dan-Echo, hands down.
Just sayin'....

I'm saying the same thing. Add the pb&j and the Ibanez DE-7 all three of those are some of the best delays out there and will not break the bank. Add the DMM to that and those would be some of my favorite non-tape delay units.

ikaros_swede · February 13th, 2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie chitlins

I've got a buddy who is a serious tone junkie, and a SERIOUS echo gourmet.
I bet he has 10 Echo-Plexes.
He also owns a recording studio and you've probably heard stuff he's done.
When I asked him what would get me the best slap-back without breaking the bank, he said Danelectro Dan-Echo, hands down.
Just sayin'....

This thread turned out to be a long one on the subject delay/echo...

I have heard a lot about the Danelectro, but I dont know if you mean the same. I think the one I heard about is called the reel echo.

I think most of us manage with the "budget equipment", like the danelectro echo or the one that started this thread, the Belcat for £18.99. But if we have the money, why settle with less? The Nocturne + VMSD is not low budget, but it is not beyond reach for the most of us. I know that I will buy the Nocturne and as soon as possible start building my own 5E3-amp.

Do I need it? I don't think so, as long as I play like a 5 year old boy I will not need it. The question is, do I want it? Oh yes!

charlie chitlins · February 14th, 2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnorkelMonkey

I'm saying the same thing. Add the pb&j and the Ibanez DE-7 all three of those are some of the best delays out there and will not break the bank. Add the DMM to that and those would be some of my favorite non-tape delay units.

I'm using a pb&j...I'm almost embarassed to admit it.
It's such a cheesy little toy...like something you'd get with a Happy Meal.
But I needed a cheap delay, and the little sucker sounds great.

TV the Wired Turtle · February 14th, 2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnorkelMonkey

The problem is wow, flutter, and the tape splice bump that comes built in with a real analog delay be it good or bad. I've not come across anything that really does it except for the real thing.

you must come across the Empress Vintage Modified Super Delay... cuz it
DOES it. had it along side my RE-301 and was IMPRESSED... but I sold it
cuz I'm a loser Boss DM-3 fiend.

SnorkelMonkey · February 14th, 2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie chitlins

I'm using a pb&j...I'm almost embarassed to admit it.
It's such a cheesy little toy...like something you'd get with a Happy Meal.
But I needed a cheap delay, and the little sucker sounds great.

Those pb&j's kick ass. They might not be housed in the best box but they sound really good. Check out a DE-7 when you get a chance. That's another one that I would say sounds really close to a real tape delay that would not break the bank. It's housed in a pretty rock solid enclosure.

SnorkelMonkey · February 14th, 2010, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV the Wired Turtle

you must come across the Empress Vintage Modified Super Delay... cuz it
DOES it.

Cool send me a demo unit and I'll give you a review up against some other tape units I have. I'll ship it back to you.

ruger9 · February 14th, 2010, 07:47 AM

Didn't like Reel Echo. Dan Echo sounds very good, but it drops a little bass when engaged, and I didn't like that. SOme people must not notice it, but I do.

I also think the BLT is identical in great slap, never played the PB&J but I'm sure it's the same circuit. The Reel Echo is NOT the same circuit.

Doc Helliday · February 24th, 2010, 01:29 AM

my Dan Echo broke and started getting clipped delays... not cool at all...

but when it worked it was kickass

ikaros_swede · February 24th, 2010, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Helliday

my Dan Echo broke and started getting clipped delays... not cool at all...

but when it worked it was kickass

Clipped delays? Isn't that a little vintage? Like a broken down tape echo?

Doc Helliday · February 24th, 2010, 05:14 AM

if by vintage you mean the wet signal sounded like a fart then yes...

maybe i sell sell it and just say "Vintage like tone" jk

ikaros_swede · February 24th, 2010, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Helliday

if by vintage you mean the wet signal sounded like a fart then yes...

maybe i sell sell it and just say "Vintage like tone" jk

Try E-bay... I think you can sell anything there! But if it is lika a fart, I wouldn't be present when it comes to try it....

I believe I stick to my green Rocktron delay for a long time! But one day will that probably be a vintage model with a sound of a fart....

Doc Helliday · February 24th, 2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikaros_swede

Try E-bay... I think you can sell anything there! But if it is lika a fart, I wouldn't be present when it comes to try it....

I believe I stick to my green Rocktron delay for a long time! But one day will that probably be a vintage model with a sound of a fart....

haha
i should

but i would feel too bad selling it to some 15yr old rockabilly kid who saved up to get the pedal.... Id rather smash it lol or use the casing lol

I've heard great things about the rocktron short timer. I just need something that doesnt fart, or doesnt fart when driven with the nocturne....

EHX's Memory Toy seems within my price range

rockabilly-rebel · February 24th, 2010, 02:18 PM

I've got the rocktron too - great pedal!

SnorkelMonkey · February 24th, 2010, 06:58 PM

Doc, Pick up a used Ibanez DE-7. They sell used around $25-$50. One of (if not) the best tape echo emulation pedals out there, you will not regret it.

JohnS · February 24th, 2010, 08:38 PM

If you ever get the chance, try an Ibanez EM-5 Echo Machine. This is a discontinued "potato bug" stomp that is just wonderful for slapback. I got mine for $35 new and would never part with it.

Bonedaddy · February 24th, 2010, 10:14 PM

Well, a DD3 is good enough for Scotty Moore: http://scottymoore.net/peavey.html

TV the Wired Turtle · February 25th, 2010, 01:32 AM

You know I think Jimi Hendrix would be using a POD XT if he was still alive today, but
Just like the Edge of U2, he was more interesting back in the rattle n hum days.

roland space echo's are a big ass, high maintenance box that hisses,hums and doesnt always do what you ask it to do. I have one and I'll take a DD-3 over a space echo if I need to depend on my echo, "echo'ing" exactly the same every night on stage. Although as "Warm" as the Boss Digital Delay #3 is compared to say a DD-7..I'm shocked he doesnt use a DD-2!! the Warmest of the warm version of cold boss digital delays ever.

I would love to own a DD-2 again but it will have to arm wrestle is even warmer pink cousins the DM-3 twins. Veritable down filled parkas of echo with a minty winter breath of freshness.

Doc Helliday · February 25th, 2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnorkelMonkey

Doc, Pick up a used Ibanez DE-7. They sell used around $25-$50. One of (if not) the best tape echo emulation pedals out there, you will not regret it.

I will check that out, Do you have any for sale?

I am Incinerator · February 26th, 2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV the Wired Turtle

I'm a loser Boss DM-3 fiend.

Hey man, that little pinky/purple box put a stranglehold on my DL-4 and put a sonic foot in the can as it knocked the green giant off of the "board". Full on Intensity with a little sun records style slap echo is crazy cool

TV the Wired Turtle · February 26th, 2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Incinerator

Hey man, that little pinky/purple box put a stranglehold on my DL-4 and put a sonic foot in the can as it knocked the green giant off of the "board". Full on Intensity with a little sun records style slap echo is crazy cool

aha!! the pink sickness rules!! Boss needs to wake the heck up and make
THIS DM-3 pedal. the compander and delay chips in this pedal are a super team in creating the perfect delay.

roadjunkie · February 26th, 2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV the Wired Turtle

aha!! the pink sickness rules!! Boss needs to wake the heck up and make
THIS DM-3 pedal. the compander and delay chips in this pedal are a super team in creating the perfect delay.

Where does that DD20 i sent you fit in. Myself i think i got the better end of that deal with the CS-550 but I use that as much as i did the DD-20 meaning not much.

I am Incinerator · February 26th, 2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV the Wired Turtle

aha!! the pink sickness rules!! Boss needs to wake the heck up and make
THIS DM-3 pedal. the compander and delay chips in this pedal are a super team in creating the perfect delay.

Hopefully after all the Aqua Puss success...Boss will atleast look into getting the DM-2 another go.

TV the Wired Turtle · February 27th, 2010, 01:11 AM

no Boss, do the DM-3!!

I am Incinerator · February 27th, 2010, 10:36 PM

If they do the DM-3 again, It may not be as great as these early 80's mojo laden echo boxes

SnorkelMonkey · February 28th, 2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Helliday

I will check that out, Do you have any for sale?

Doc, I have only one and I would be keeping that one.

But you will not have a hard time finding one on the used market. They can be had very cheap and if you don't like it just flip it and you'll get your money back. I seriously doubt you'll flip it.