Check out the newest news, views, lessons and more for Fender lovers -- FenderRocks.com

Anakin2Solo · May 18th, 2012, 08:42 AM

Hey Guys,

I was really considering a Setzer signature Nashville, but something bothered me. What is the deal with the bigsby? I have watched his Hot Licks video many times and his original vintage 59 6120 has the v cut Bigsby. Why do they have the 5120 bigsby on his signature model? Seems like the signature model should be uilt to reflect his actaul 59 6120. Has this been discussed? Anyone know why Gretsch/Fender decided to do this?

ChetEddy · May 18th, 2012, 10:17 AM

The Setzer/Nashville models ,at least some of them,do have the v-cut bigsby's,the 5120's do not;as far as i know.

Anakin2Solo · May 18th, 2012, 10:23 AM

I know the Hot Rods do, but every Nashville I have seen has the same one my 5120 has. I am guessing more vintage models might have the v cut. It just doesn't make sense that any Setzer 6120 would not have that style bigsby.

GADify · May 18th, 2012, 10:33 AM

Brian Setzer has many Gretsches. The one in the Hot Licks video is not THE one.

Setzer's real '59 that was copied to the last detail by the custom shop looks like this:

My SSLVO looks like this:

For me, THAT's the right Bigsby, not the V-cut.

That said, last time I saw him play, he was playing this one:

But the original Stray Cats orange '59 that is THE Setzer guitar is the one I pictured above.

TV the Wired Turtle · May 18th, 2012, 01:19 PM

The original '59 he has been touring with over the last yr that I got to hold had the V cut

and that hot licks video where he's got the 4 knob'r.. thats a gift guitar from joe walsh.

plus the stray cat is most famous for the original bigsby on his gretsch..

here is Setzer's famous #13 being analyzed at the fender custom shop

and me again (stalker) holding the first setzer NAMM show replica

Anakin2Solo · May 18th, 2012, 01:56 PM

Thanks guys. That is some great info.

TV the Wired Turtle · May 18th, 2012, 02:42 PM

be sure to watch the rockpalast video from '81!!

HypotenusLuvTriangle · May 18th, 2012, 02:46 PM

Anakin2Solo ? someone's read the expanded universe.

Wayne Gretschzky · May 19th, 2012, 10:08 PM

Setzer's latest is from the #345xx batch, and is a 1960 model year example. In fact most of his vintage stable over the years (with the arguable exception of the original Stray Cat) are 1960 model year examples (thus the V-style bigsby). The Stray Cat specimen originally had a V-style bigsby from the factory, but when Brian put her together it got an older enamel-style B6, and the rest is history.

Anakin2Solo · May 19th, 2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypotenusLuvTriangle

Anakin2Solo ? someone's read the expanded universe.

I am a fan

There is some great info in this thread. I also watched a youtube clip with Setzer's tech going over the 4 guitars and the amp he had on one of his more recent tours. He had the original and another '59 model. Both had screws through the neck to keep them together. I guess Brian was a little rough on them.

TV, I actually watched that entie concert last night. They were pretty punk back in the day. Great show.

TV the Wired Turtle · May 19th, 2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Gretschzky

Setzer's latest is from the #345xx batch, and is a 1960 model year example. In fact most of his vintage stable over the years (with the arguable exception of the original Stray Cat) are 1960 model year examples (thus the V-style bigsby). The Stray Cat specimen originally had a V-style bigsby from the factory, but when Brian put her together it got an older enamel-style B6, and the rest is history.

what brings you to this conclusion? (please read I'm not asking in any way for you to feel you need to defend yourself, I'm just curious why you shared what you did)

I held the 59' he'd just got off the stage performing with at Agua Caliente. Got to look at the trestles inside, the new headstock laminate and moved tuning pegs and removed zero fret with moved nut. As we sat a rapped about it, he stopped me when I said my SSLVO felt sort of like this and he said "there no better gretsch than a 1959 gretsch". He also said Mike Lewis did the cat scans for the SSLVO on a 60s gretsch not his.

Wayne Gretschzky · May 20th, 2012, 09:39 AM

Hi Tavo... no sweat.

It's impossible to know "when" any vintage Gretsch rolled out of the factory, since those factory production records are long gone. We can get close with pot codes and original bills of sale, and the periodic dated neck stamp (although I've not encountered one later than '58). So the fact that Gretsch updated most of their models, almost every year, with changed features makes "model year" more relevant than "calendar year". I would agree that most 6120's made before say #355xx were made in vary late 1959, but from #330xx on, they had changed features intended for the 1960 model year (V-bigsby and 2.5" body). You're a car guy... it's the same way the auto industry works today (early calendar release of the next model year product).

As far as the Stray Cat (#33024), it is what Brian first coined as his beloved "'59". At first glance I would agree, since it has the enamel-faced B6 unit. But we all know the story of Brian buying that guitar in pieces, and the reality is that all the pieces were not original (i.e. the space control bridge). Other supporting evidence I've gathered are documented examples from this 6120 batch: #33002 and #33022 which have V-style bigsby units, as well as #33063, 33064, and 33097. In fact I've not encountered another with the older-style B6 from this group. The only vaguery to the Stray Cat guitar is that is is still a 2.75" body ('59 spec), but I can report for a fact that #33022 is 2.5" deep. It's my opinion that the first portion of this #330xx batch of 6120s retained the 2.75" body, but that it switched to the new 1960 spec (2.5") mid-batch.... and Brian's Stray Cat is one of the very last 2.75" examples to have been produced. That's why I hedge and reference this guitar as "arguably" a 1959 example, as it has mixed features. However, all the other vintage 6120 in Brian's stable over the years (Steve Miller guitar, etc.) were made in later batches, and have both the V-style bigsby as well as the shallower 2.5" body depth, which are the defining features for the 1960 model year.

Truthfully... I think Brian made such a big deal about his guitar being a '59 in the early days (writing songs about it, and the Tribute model having 59 examples, etc.) that it's just too hard to back-off that now, and it's become part of his identity. And that's cool by me, as I'm a huge Brian Setzer fan! But, as a student of the brand and the history of these amazing guitars, I also find myself striving for accuracy as we discuss that history. Hope that helps... I know I tend to babble on about this stuff... -- WG.

PS - Brian is correct about the Mike Lewis story. I've spoken to Mike directly about that.

sroux · May 20th, 2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TV the Wired Turtle

and me again (stalker) holding the first setzer NAMM show replica

If Brian ever winds up trapped in a cabin in the woods with hobbled legs, we know where to send the authorities!............

GADify · May 20th, 2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Gretschzky

Truthfully... I think Brian made such a big deal about his guitar being a '59 in the early days (writing songs about it, and the Tribute model having 59 examples, etc.) that it's just too hard to back-off that now, and it's become part of his identity. And that's cool by me, as I'm a huge Brian Setzer fan! But, as a student of the brand and the history of these amazing guitars, I also find myself striving for accuracy as we discuss that history. Hope that helps... I know I tend to babble on about this stuff... -- WG.

PS - Brian is correct about the Mike Lewis story. I've spoken to Mike directly about that.

Cool stuff. I think, though, that singing, "...and my Gretsch '59" just rolls off the tongue better than, "...and my Gretsch '60".

TV the Wired Turtle · May 20th, 2012, 11:18 PM

vehreeeee interestinggh

big kenny · May 21st, 2012, 07:14 AM

You Tube

TV the Wired Turtle · May 25th, 2012, 07:42 PM

Okay so... I need some 'splaining here then Mr Wayne.. this is an original gretsch owned by a GDP member serial 29972

"this 6120 is a true-blue 1959 model year example. The #299xx group was the second batch of that model year (defined by the zero fret feature, sculpted pu bezels, PAF filters, etc.). That one should still have the first generation trestle bracing"

Wayne Gretschzky · May 25th, 2012, 09:58 PM

Hi Tavo... what's the question? The #299xx batch are considered 1959 examples, probably made late in the '58 calendar year, but they have most of the classic '59 features. Brian's Stray Cat is a #330xx example (and the rest of his vintage stable are from later batches than that even). The Setzer batch is 3000 guitars later than the one in this photo, and as mentioned was produced just as the 1960 model year feature package was being implemented on the 6120. The single cutaway 6120s had feature changes for every model year, and some even mid-year (i.e. light trestles). It's like tracking mid-50s Chevy's... you can tell the vintage simply by checking the features (taillight style etc.). Once you know each year's defining features, you really don't need to know the serial number to determine vintage. That's assuming the guitars in question is all original... which as we know isn't always the case (i.e. the Stray Cat).

TV the Wired Turtle · May 25th, 2012, 10:06 PM

Well thats what I was following from you and I wanted more input.. I just saw this 59 and it had the non v cut bigsby..
I want to learn what the feature differences are in the way like you say show up on cars. BOOO on the chevy's I'm a buick man

Wayne Gretschzky · May 25th, 2012, 10:30 PM

My first car was a '68 Buick Skylark, not as sexy as what I'm sure you gravitate to... but it was my first and had 8 cylinders. I was 16 and I don't think I ever had the gas tank above half. I can still smell the interior! (deep sigh)

Yea... the enamel faced B6 was '59 (Philips bolt), and the V-style was one of the two signature features of 1960 (body depth being the other). Jay Scott mentions that in his book as well. Another event that muddies the water on this for everyone is the modern Gretsch snafu of outfitting their 6120-1960 with the enamel-faced B6, and then the subsequent 6120-1959 with the V-style. Kind of an embarrassing error, and one they haven't seen fit to correct. Not a big deal... but it confuses the issue.