[G-Whiz]

I probably shouldn't put this in a guitar forum, but I'm sure a lot of you guys and gals know your way around recording a bit.

I have been working on recording an album for a couple years. I have rerecorded the songs a bunch of times as I learn more and get better. I think I'm actually doing pretty well. I have learned a few tricks along the way (I have found the use of an octave voice effect 50/50 mix sounds great on my kick). I have also learned that my Pro Jet sounds great recorded with a Kay 703-C.

I have recorded several local bands, and always get a pretty decent drum sound, but when I ty to record my own stuff, I guess my snare drum sound is never good enough for it (since it's mine). I have even guested on drums for some solo type artists and it's always just fine.

I just can't get the snare in MY stuff to sit in the mix right. It just doesn't stand out in the mix, and when I get it to, it's too much. I like a nice, up front drum sound, and I want it to sound very organic, and it does....until I bring any guitar in.

Mics: I have used an SM-57, Sennheiser e609, MXL Pencil, even a large diaphram condenser. Snares: Early '70's Ludwig Supraphonic, late '70's Ludwig Acrolite, late '70's maple Ludwig Coliseum, late '60's Slingerland something or th'other. Rooms: I've tried large concrete basement, big live room with hardwood floors and high ceilings, small dead room with carpet on walls and floors, and a medium sized room with a nice live/dead mix. Recorder: Korg D3200, have tried using a tube pre, mostly just straight to the mixer.

I always make sure the signal is as hot as it can be without clipping. I've tried compressors, limiters, gates, reverb, expanders and just about anything you can think of. Overheads I usually do spaced pair, sometimes recorderman, sometimes xy. Snare mic placement is usually 45 degree angle about an inch from the head.

It always sounds bonk-y. Please help!

[telespank]

Have you tried an out of phase mic under the snare in conjunction with the top snare mic? You have to rewire the mic cable to get it out of phase when using a Korg - just unsolder the two non-ground leads and switch them. Mix the two mics together to get a good sound.

I don't know what sound you are going for, but a really tight head on the snare usually gives a good "crack" that stands out in the mix.

A new snare head can liven up a snare, also.

I'm with you - I also have a Korg D3200 and I love it. I find that drums and heavily distorted guitars are the hardest things to get to sit well in the mix.

[G-Whiz]

I love my D3200 as well, it's a very powerful machine, but I think the inputs could be ran a little hotter. It's also very easy for the mix to clip out within the mixer when the individual tracks are turned up to an appropraite level.

I like to tune my snare pretty low and I probably should tune it a bit higher than I do live.

I have tried a bottom mic and I may be doing it wrong, but it sounded a little too "crisp". I probably just didn't mix it well. Should I rewire the mic cable instead of using the phase revesal option on the Korg?

[telespank]

Phase reversal on the Korg? Cool! I didn't know it had that feature. Of course, it has lots of features I never used. I grew up in the 4 track reel to reel generation.

I keep a reversed phase cable (marked with red tape) in my little studio. It's an old school aid for the softwarically challenged.

I find "crispy/cracky" snare sounds really cut through a mix. If that's not the sound you are going for, then all of my comments are probably off the track for your recording. Using an in phase set of top/bottom mics can make a snare sound "thin".

Have you tried compression? It can really tighten up a drum mix.

[G-Whiz]

Originally Posted by telespank

Phase reversal on the Korg? Cool! I didn't know it had that feature. Of course, it has lots of features I never used. I grew up in the 4 track reel to reel generation.

I keep a reversed phase cable (marked with red tape) in my little studio. It's an old school aid for the softwarically challenged.

I find "crispy/cracky" snare sounds really cut through a mix. If that's not the sound you are going for, then all of my comments are probably off the track for your recording. Using an in phase set of top/bottom mics can make a snare sound "thin".

Have you tried compression? It can really tighten up a drum mix.

I probably had tried to put the bottom snare mic too forward in the mix.

Maybe what I have in mind about what my snare "should" sound like and the means in which I'm trying to get it are too contrasted. Maybe it's a "user error" with me/my ear.

I have tried using compression, but anytime I can notice a difference is when I squash the crap out of it. Then it almost sounds like it hooked up to a distortion pedal/very unnatural to my ear. What ratio would you recommend?

[damacleod]

G-Whiz, see if you can hold of a copy of Bobby Owsinski's Recording Engineer's Handbook. I don't have much experience of micing drums, but this is my "go to" reference book. It has got a fantastic section on micing snares - and some great stuff on tuning a snare for recording. Too much to summarise in a quick forum post but he advises an SM57 about an inch above the rim of the drum, pointing at the centre of the head, and a directional mic underneath pointing at the snares, about 4-8 inches away. Then experiment with the phase on the bottom mic and mix between top and bottom. You can further experiment with the angle of the SM57, pointing to towards the far rim of the drum. If that doesn't work there are dozens more suggestions.

Hope this helps,

Dave Mac

[G-Whiz]

Telespank, if you hit the "mixer" button, then click on "EQ/ATT/PHASE", Click on the "PHASE" tab at the bottom, it has little buttons for you to click N (ormal) or R (everse) for each track.

[G-Whiz]

Originally Posted by damacleod

G-Whiz, see if you can hold of a copy of Bobby Owsinski's Recording Engineer's Handbook. I don't have much experience of micing drums, but this is my "go to" reference book. It has got a fantastic section on micing snares - and some great stuff on tuning a snare for recording. Too much to summarise in a quick forum post but he advises an SM57 about an inch above the rim of the drum, pointing at the centre of the head, and a directional mic underneath pointing at the snares, about 4-8 inches away. Then experiment with the phase on the bottom mic and mix between top and bottom. You can further experiment with the angle of the SM57, pointing to towards the far rim of the drum. If that doesn't work there are dozens more suggestions.

Hope this helps,

Dave Mac

Thanks for the reference, man. I picked up a copy of "Home Studio Clinic", don't remember the author, but he goes through too much detail about different mics and equipment and doesn't write enough about actual micing techniques, IMO. I will have to look into "...Handbook". I bet it will be a good read.

[vjf1968]

Originally Posted by G-Whiz

Thanks for the reference, man. I picked up a copy of "Home Studio Clinic", don't remember the author, but he goes through too much detail about different mics and equipment and doesn't write enough about actual micing techniques, IMO. I will have to look into "...Handbook". I bet it will be a good read.

Micing is an artform unto itself. I am assuming you want more of a "snap" from the snare. Try an SM57 on the bottom and the MXL on top. There may not be a phase problem since the mics are different. Make sure the 57 is closed to the snare bed. That should grab the lower transient and the MXL should grab the high transient. You may have to add some compression and EQ to get what you want, even reverse the phase of one of the mics to check.

Another trick is to run white noise and side chain a gate so everytime the snare hits it opens the gate and lets the white noise come through with the hit. Roy Thomas Baker did this with the snare drum on The Cars "Moving In Stereo"