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As part of my ongoing project of listening to a lot of Country-Rock and Folk-Rock I've been listening to Crosby, Stills and Nash lately. I've noticed that Stephen Stills seems to use two distinct sounds, a fairly typical twangy Blues sound and another sound heard on such songs as "Wooden Ships" and "Just a Song Before I Go" that sounds very compressed but not with a typical stomp-box sound. The closest I've ever come to that sound was with my Blues Jr at 12 and the master volume turned down on my 6120n in an outdoor venue. Does anyone here have any insights into how Stills creates this sound?
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God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.
Stills is tough because he never uses picks. so you've got that finger pad thing going on.... natural compression!
I think you are on the right track to roll the treble way back... I kind of remember somebody telling me that he played that track direct with a tele! two or three old tube compressors and no amp.
I didn't really believe it as I figured it was a semi hollow body (maybe a gretsch) into princeton with the treble rolled off and board compression... but, I was assured that my buddy was correct.... go figure!
I do love that sound... I think stills uses a chorus (ugh) to do it now with an esquire or a firebird live... not good to my ears... but I think he is basically deaf at this stage...
I'll come back later.. got an errand to run.
__________________ "If you post crazy topics on guitar forums, you aren't having an intellectual discussion." --Foppy
I always thought Stills used the worst guitars ever invented for Rock: jazz guitars!
I've seen him in photos with Gibson archtops like Super 400 or the like.
Beyond the tone on wooden ships, which sounds like his amp was under a blanket of cotton, were wrong notes and oblivious phrasing.
There. I said it. Slagged a rich icon with expensive guitars.
There's no denying the man's work, from Super Sessions, on.
But I've never developed an ear for Stephen Stills, I guess.
Mark, my guitar tech works on SS guitars. In fact he just got back from doing some work for him. I have to stop by on Tuesday so I'll see if he knows.
I'll be waiting with baited breath.
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Check out my new guitar website.
God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.
Okay here is what Stephen Stills tech told me. He said you won't be able to get the pickups that Stills had on his Falcon, but the closest would be TV Jones Classics. Stills played through a 1962 or 1963 Fender Bassman 4X10 Combo and a Fairchild Compressor. I hope I wrote this down correctly but you should be able to decipher if I didn't.
__________________ Oh wow! This is the earliest I've ever been late.
Okay here is what Stephen Stills tech told me. He said you won't be able to get the pickups that Stills had on his Falcon, but the closest would be TV Jones Classics. Stills played through a 1962 or 1963 Fender Bassman 4X10 Combo and a Fairchild Compressor. I hope I wrote this down correctly but you should be able to decipher if I didn't.
I wonder how much a Fairchild compressor would cost. Thanks for the info Sarah.
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Check out my new guitar website.
God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.
I know some guys might sneer... but, it is very very good. there are some really inexpensive packages on the mac side of DAW software that actually use the fairchild as the model... and for people who think that it can't be modeled...
it is cool to have the old tube stuff... but man, chaining these now is really easy and you don't need Dave Lindley in polyester pants to do it for you (although that would be cool!)
here is a cool one that WAS for sale..... and some really fun commentary... lots of voodoo... but, I do remember seeing them in my youth and hearing what a difference they made.... it used to be such magic, such art in a studio!
This guy makes some good points... I dig how weird he is!
this one is good if you have some decent speaks to listen..
of course if you wanna learn about the compressor... you gotta learn about John McKnight and Rein Narma....
It is a very fun and small world. I exchanged info once several years ago with Mr. McKnight re: a problem he had with Forth (an amazing and utter geek programming language.) Like Tommy Dowd, a renaissance man.... I'd heard of Rein Narma and knew he was a genius... but, man... he was a really smart and fun guy!
btw, they reference Les' 8 track studio several times as the first 8 track... I don't think that is factual (not that it matters) but I do think Tommy D had the first one, but they were months apart.....
I love the story about Tommy going to Abbey Road to 'learn' from George Martin and when he got there he realized the studio was pretty far behind his studio(s) in the US....
__________________ "If you post crazy topics on guitar forums, you aren't having an intellectual discussion." --Foppy
Stills is still one of my all time favorite players. electric and acoustic. He uses two distinct tones in Wooden Ship, doesn't he. The noodling during the verses then the solo bit which is a bit more twangy.
When I say him a couple of years ago with CSNY he mostly played a strat through Marshall combos.
For some reason, based upon dubious sources which I've long since forgotten, I thought he played a tele on WS. I do remember reading that he stayed late and added the organ part which, according to the article, transformed the song.
Guitars that used to look pretty big on him now look pretty small.
Love it, Bud. Only vid I stuck on my new ipod. Not kidding, the only other music vid that tripped my trigger this hard is the Dark Side of the Moon Dave, Rick and Mick did without Roger in the mid 80's.
That's one of the cool things about California. It amazes me the people you can meet or become friends with. The engineer who worked with Stills back in the days of Buffalo Springield was Bruce Botnick. He is a legend when it comes to the technics of electric recording effects on music. I think he was instrumental (no pun intended) in the compression used on their recordings. He also was the engineer for the Doors to get their sound. I know there are many other great musicians he worked with. Anyway, he lives in Ojai, about 15 miles from me with his wife Marie. She is a real sweetheart and writes books on gardening. Anyway, I used to take care of their cat, "B2". When I lived in Ojai it was pretty neat to have a celebrity like him roll down his window and yell to me as I was walking down the sidewalk.
I've meet other people, some who have become friends, but name dropping just sort doesn't feel right so I'll leave that alone. Since we were talking about Stills and his unique sounds it seemed appropriate.
__________________ Oh wow! This is the earliest I've ever been late.
the live setup Stephen used in Manassas is illustrated on the inner liner of the album; in the blurred repro in the CD booklet he has:
guitars: White Penguin, White Falcon, another Gretsch that looks like a doublecut Country Gentleman, sunburst Les Paul with zebra humbuckers and B7 Bigsby.
amps: 2x blackface Bassman heads stacked, which appear to drive a blond 2x12 Fender cabinet; one beige Tolex/oxblood Bassman stack; Fender tube reverb unit, stacked with what looks like a Fender 1x15 bass cabinet.
added bonus Gretsch sighting: in the same photo Chris Hillman wields two Duo Jets.
additional data points: i've also seen Stills in old photos using a Sho-Bud volume pedal; i have no idea of his preferred wah. as seen in the "Journey Through The Past" movie, he played an ES355 on "Southern Man" with CSNY. the leads on the studio "Deja Vu" were played on a Gibson Super 400 he'd just been given by Crosby and Nash. IIRC his 1969 live setup per the "Celebration at Big Sur" footage was also Bassman heads and 2x12 cabinets; an orange 6120 is much in evidence there. in the 80s Stephen was into 100W marshall halfstacks with a Telecaster. no wonder his hearing is shot.
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things always work out eventually. it's waiting for "eventually" to get here that gets tiring.
There is a really great Les Dudek album from the mid/late 70's called "Say No More" that Bruce Botnick produced (and I think he engineered as well) you can hear some really great sounds...
If you get a chance to listen to the record... it is really well recorded and, well, Les is a truly fine player.
__________________ "If you post crazy topics on guitar forums, you aren't having an intellectual discussion." --Foppy
I liked his Springfield days and his Super Session work best (for electric). Acoustic is another matter, how do you make a Martin sound bad with his talent. I find he rolls back the tone even more than I would (if I could only play close to him)....but when he plays since BS I find that is is more than warmth, it is a lack of tone he uses. His Firebird 1 is an example, how do you make that thing have such a lack of tone. I do like his playing and I like his choice of the way he uses tone most of the time but to be honest I have not really listened to his electric work since he and Neil disbanded BS, yes I know it went on for a bit with Crosby but it was never the same. Just my two cents, Neil and Stephen together are the tone, the sound, whatever you wish to call it, to me.
Stephen Stills Sound
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