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MoonshineCalbilly · July 5th, 2012, 02:01 PM

Hello, I have an Electromatic 5129 with the DeArmond 2000, single coil pickups. It has taken me a while to get all of my settings right on my guitar and amp and I think I have a pretty good sound, tone-wise, at this time but I have one problem that I can't overcome: If I am using the neck pup it will completely overwhelm the bridge pup. It is almost too close to call between using just the neck pup and using both, while just using the bridge has a whole different tone and attack.

Then I started noticing that various Gretsch guitars I see in pics have the poles on their single coil pups (I've seen this on both Dynasonics and DeArmond 2000s) facing different directions. On my 5129 the poles face away from each other and towards their respective position. That is, the poles face the bridge on the bridge pup while the poles face the neck on the neck pup (see pic):

But I have seen them configured in every other possible way in various pics. I have seen them both facing the same way and etc.

My questions then are: Is there a "right way" to have these pups set? And could this be the problem of why my neck pup is overwhelming the bridge pup? That is, if the neck pup is designed to be facing the other way, it might be receiving way too much on the lower end or something? Thanks for any help you can give me here.

The Marlin · July 5th, 2012, 02:03 PM

I just fiddle with them until the sound nice.

Marlin

bluenote23 · July 5th, 2012, 04:38 PM

Stock Dynasonics are set up like your guitar. TV Jones T-Armonds are supposed to be set up with the neck pickup poles in the same (as opposed to opposite) orientation as the bridge pickup.
None of which really helps for your DeArmonds but I might suggest lowering the neck pickup poles and raising to bridge poles to compensate for the volume difference.

MoonshineCalbilly · July 6th, 2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluenote23

I might suggest lowering the neck pickup poles and raising to bridge poles to compensate for the volume difference.

Thanks, I might just try a little tinkering with the poles -- I just wanted to make sure that the pups were in there right in the first place. I was looking at a White Penguin on ebay the other day and the Dynasonics were set up on it with both sets of poles towards the bridge, this got me looking at others and I finally realized that I had no idea which way they were supposed to face.

Uncle Daddy · July 9th, 2012, 07:45 AM

I have the same pups on my 5126, configured the same way. There's little differnce in terms of output between the two, but they have somewhat differnt tones.

I'm wondering if you might have a faulty selector switch or volume control. You could also try dialing the individual pole heights like this-

HypotenusLuvTriangle · July 9th, 2012, 09:54 AM

Yeah, just be careful of having the magnets to close to the strings. Mine were too close on my penguin and it actually caused lots of buzzing and sustain issues. The magnets are uber powerful.

Uncle Daddy · July 9th, 2012, 01:48 PM

Here are the 2 ee's missing from my previous post!

Tony65x55 · July 9th, 2012, 02:38 PM

The pickups on my 5129 are the same configuration as yours. On my bridge pickup the pole peices are about 1/8" from the strings and on the neck pickup, about 1/4." I don't know if this helps but mine are very balanced with each other and sound great.

MoonshineCalbilly · July 11th, 2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Daddy

I have the same pups on my 5126, configured the same way. There's little differnce in terms of output between the two, but they have somewhat differnt tones.

I'm wondering if you might have a faulty selector switch or volume control. You could also try dialing the individual pole heights like this-

Sorry, I have just received the stuff I needed to set up my leathercraft operation and haven't even been online for a few days now. Thanks a lot, this is interesting stuff. I will have to look into it all.

P.S. I will have some pics of my first leather offerings within a week (hint, they help us hold onto our guitars...)

Lizardkinged · July 11th, 2012, 03:43 PM

Just moving the poles on these doesn't do enough...

Dearmonds are interesting pickups. I found that When I removed all but one of the thinner ring-spacers on the neck pickup, and put the thicker 2 slant ring-spacers underneath the bridge pickup, and then Raised the neck poles a good 7mm. (they're jacked up out of there)

The biggest problem I was having was the neck pickup just over-powers the bridge pickup. I've thought about swapping out the magnets for Dyna-slugs for just the bridge pup, and or Rewind/re-pot the bridge as well. Although I messed w/ the heights and after I did this, I had 3 distinct sounds. (same flavor) but It seemed a lot more balanced for my ears and what I was going for.

These pickups are good. I installed T-armonds for a friend, and they're a WHOLE different ball-park of good. Most of its preference.

MoonshineCalbilly · July 15th, 2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

Just moving the poles on these doesn't do enough...

Dearmonds are interesting pickups. I found that When I removed all but one of the thinner ring-spacers on the neck pickup, and put the thicker 2 slant ring-spacers underneath the bridge pickup, and then Raised the neck poles a good 7mm. (they're jacked up out of there)

The biggest problem I was having was the neck pickup just over-powers the bridge pickup. I've thought about swapping out the magnets for Dyna-slugs for just the bridge pup, and or Rewind/re-pot the bridge as well. Although I messed w/ the heights and after I did this, I had 3 distinct sounds. (same flavor) but It seemed a lot more balanced for my ears and what I was going for.

These pickups are good. I installed T-armonds for a friend, and they're a WHOLE different ball-park of good. Most of its preference.

Dude, let me know if that Dyna slug switch works; that's an amazing idea but I can't afford anything more than the turn of a screwdriver right now.

I have to change out strings today anyway, so I'm gonna do a little 'spearmintin with my pups based upon the little I can savvy and piece together from all of the above thoughts. I've been having to equalize my mids into the mix on my amp on my bridge pups, they just weren't there otherwise, so those Setzer settings make sense. After reading all of your comments, I finally used the energy to turn my head and take a look at the pole levels and found that they are all just flat against the surface of the pups and both the neck and bridge pups are at about 1/8th" from the strings straight across. The neck pup looks like its a little further away, but not much and certainly not 1/4" away; and that sounds like a good idea too. So, my plan is to remove one of the little rubber spacers under the pups so I can back them off a little and add some room for adjustment there and to set my poles according to the Paul Setzer diagram. While I'm at it I'm gonna lean the neck pup forward slightly in order to level its surface with the slant of the strings. The bridge pup looks level. Well, wish me luck...

Lizardkinged · July 15th, 2012, 05:32 PM

I just dont have time or funds either @ the moment to test such hypotheses, but realistically the most effective "fix" I can see for using these in a more "traditional" mounting setup the way it came, is to have the bridge Pup rewound @ about 12-13k ohms, and a magnet swap in the bridge. The neck pickup in this is great, just too much for the bridge.

But Removing those spacers like I mentioned was good enough for me.

Keep in mind your trying to get the body of the neck pickup low, and the pole mags higher up. I'll snap a photo here in a few and get it on here for you.

But you want your bridge pickup to be setup traditionally... having the body an 1/8th is perfect, maybe 5/32's

but then keep in mind that you only want to tweak those poles to balance individual string level to YOUR taste.

The neck pick up is a bit trickier, but easy. Just 1 of the 4 thinner sized spacers, and then putting the 2 thicker slanted spacers stacked under the bridge was just enough for me. Then I raised the neck poles quite a bit. BRB.

My card reader is busted, or not connected to my motherboard right now. I'll have to send a picture later. I've got measurements on the neck body and poles for what I've done.

Body:7/16ths from the bass side E
Pole @ bass side E: is just about 1/4in from the bass side E.

fjr_wertheimber · July 15th, 2012, 06:10 PM

I've actually noticed the same problem on my Penguin... anyone know a good source for spacers for the stock Dynasonics?

Lizardkinged · July 15th, 2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjr_wertheimber

I've actually noticed the same problem on my Penguin... anyone know a good source for spacers for the stock Dynasonics?

You should have a bunch of spacers already or enough to work w/. You can buy foam ones from TV-Jones, which work fairly well some will say they will degrade, but I've seen this material in 80's guitars that still have tons of response.

MoonshineCalbilly · July 15th, 2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

I just dont have time or funds either @ the moment to test such hypotheses, but realistically the most effective "fix" I can see for using these in a more "traditional" mounting setup the way it came, is to have the bridge Pup rewound @ about 12-13k ohms, and a magnet swap in the bridge. The neck pickup in this is great, just too much for the bridge.

But Removing those spacers like I mentioned was good enough for me.

Keep in mind your trying to get the body of the neck pickup low, and the pole mags higher up. I'll snap a photo here in a few and get it on here for you.

But you want your bridge pickup to be setup traditionally... having the body an 1/8th is perfect, maybe 5/32's

but then keep in mind that you only want to tweak those poles to balance individual string level to YOUR taste.

The neck pick up is a bit trickier, but easy. Just 1 of the 4 thinner sized spacers, and then putting the 2 thicker slanted spacers stacked under the bridge was just enough for me. Then I raised the neck poles quite a bit. BRB.

My card reader is busted, or not connected to my motherboard right now. I'll have to send a picture later. I've got measurements on the neck body and poles for what I've done.

Body:7/16ths from the bass side E
Pole @ bass side E: is just about 1/4in from the bass side E.

If you ever run into anybody who is having any problems with the sound coming out of their single coils; the advice on this thread should solve it. I am telling you, the sound coming out of these DeArmond 2000s is massive now! And the tones are outstanding (well, I guess they always were).

Moved the neck pup away from the strings one thin spacer and then adjusted the poles on both pups basically to the P. Setzer diagram that Uncle Daddy provided (then made a couple of little tweaks after getting her all tuned up) and this guitar is sounding like she's supposed to.

My best tuner is in one of my amp model softwares so I first plugged it into the computer and set up with a Vox AC30 model and man did she deliver! Even before I tuned her up I could tell that I was getting some out of this world tones, especially in my mids. Then I tuned her and started working with the various pup settings and they are balanced great now too. With the mids set right on the neck pup, I'm getting a much richer and a little dryer (which I like) neck that blends well in various ways with the bridge. After bringing up the mids on the bridge (I did like you said and left the pup setting just where it was and just made my pole adjustments) I can't even describe the difference in the quality. Man she just takes you and grabs you and makes you listen now.

Then I plugged her into my (Fender Super 60) amp and it was basically the same experience. Dirty or clean, she delivered as good as anyone could ask.

Thank you folks so much for all of the advice. This made my day, big time!

Uncle Daddy · July 16th, 2012, 12:54 AM

Glad it all worked out. I found that the Setzer pole adjustment made a world of difference. These pups still seem to give a lower output than the Gretsch buckers; if I swap guitars over I normally have to crank the volume when switching from my 5120 to the 5126. However I love the tones these Dearmonds give.

Lizardkinged · July 16th, 2012, 04:37 AM

Indeed, always good to hear when it all comes together. This instrument frustrated me after I had broken it in and got used to it, for similar reasons (as well as a bad ground) but 3 years after I got it, I spent a few days making all the adjustments I could to get these results.

If I ever do replace the Slugs and rewind the bridge I'll let you know what happens.

GentleBen · July 16th, 2012, 10:21 AM

I have 3 dynas installed on my Gretschiphone and I used bridge/neck/bridge in order to take advantage of the reverse windings. That way I can get the Strat 2 and 4 positions out of it.

MoonshineCalbilly · July 16th, 2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Daddy

Glad it all worked out. I found that the Setzer pole adjustment made a world of difference. These pups still seem to give a lower output than the Gretsch buckers; if I swap guitars over I normally have to crank the volume when switching from my 5120 to the 5126. However I love the tones these Dearmonds give.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizardkinged

Indeed, always good to hear when it all comes together. This instrument frustrated me after I had broken it in and got used to it, for similar reasons (as well as a bad ground) but 3 years after I got it, I spent a few days making all the adjustments I could to get these results.

If I ever do replace the Slugs and rewind the bridge I'll let you know what happens.

Yeah, thanks again guys, I am hearing tones that I only expected to finally get once I can afford a True-Tone or Compton bridge. That is, I expected the combination of these things to bring out these results, rather than so much out of just these adjustments. Personally, I think the only large benefit (I'm sure the tones would improve some) one might get from changing out the slugs would be that power Uncle Daddy is speaking of. I haven't had a Gretsch with dual coil pups of any kind yet, but I do have a Hot Rod Strat with vintage '54 pups and I plugged her into the same settings on both my amp and my amp models and although it sounded pretty good, I was just thinking the whole time, "Man, I've gotta turn up the volume and gain to even come close to the power I'm getting outta the Gretsch."

MoonshineCalbilly · July 16th, 2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleBen

I have 3 dynas installed on my Gretschiphone and I used bridge/neck/bridge in order to take advantage of the reverse windings. That way I can get the Strat 2 and 4 positions out of it.

Wow, that's an awesome guitar and a very good thought on the pup configuration. If/when I can afford another project, I'm thinking of building a "Twanginstein" out of an old (non-historically refurbishable) Gretsch New Yorker (they're always showing up on ebay) and putting in three pups. There are so many variables to choose from. I was actually thinking of two TV Jones Classics with a Lipstick pup in the middle connected with a Fender 5-way selector (if possible); but your Dyna config seems more natural, in a way, to get basically the same results. Well, I still might stick a TV Jones Classic on the bridge, but that's just a personal taste thing there -- and greediness, I want both the jingle jangle and the overwhelming growl!