[echo]

Not too long ago I bought a 5122, and I totally like the way it plays and looks. But I'm not crazy about the pickups, and I've found that its way too hard to keep in tune.

I'm trying to decide whether or not to send it back and get a 5422. Hopefully, that would make it unnecessary to replace the pickups. In the best case, the tuning would get better too.

I'm probably going to be replacing the bridge on whichever of the two I wind up with. So that's one of the questions I'd like some advice on. What's the best bridge for one of these guitars, as far as minimizing the tuning issues associated with the Bigsby?

Are roller bridges best? Locking roller bridges?

My window for returning the 5122 ends tomorrow night, so any advice you can give me will be appreciated. Either on the bridge, the pickups, prices, or any combination of those questions.

Thanks!

[mike fried]

I just got a Caddy Green 5420 from Musician's Friend and love it. The Blacktop Filtertrons are a big improvement over the Gretschbuckers in the 51xx's, and they will swap out for other Gretsch or TVJ filters if you don't like them. Bigsby tuning issues are usually related to the nut slots binding, not the bridge (especially with B6/B3/B11 types without a tension bar) - this one has a AOM bridge and it's fine as long as I keep the nut slots slippery w/ pencil lead. My Epi Swingster has a roller TOM and it hold its tuning exactly the same as the 5420 (well), so my conclusion is that the bridge type will affect the tone much more than it will the Bigsby's tuning.

[echo]

Hi Mike,

Most of the day i was leaning towards the 5422, but then the consensus seems to be that I can fix the tuning on my 5122 at the nut, and I've been playing it for about 3 hours tonight and for some reason the tuning seems to be less of an issue.

I use the Bigsby more to flatten the strings than to sharpen them, and this got me picturing them sliding over the nut, towards the headstock more often than towards the body, and then sticking instead of traveling back- because they almost always go sharp. So I tried lifting up on the bar to pull them back, and it actually seems to work! Maybe a locking nut would be good?

If I eliminate the tuning issue from the decision, that leaves the pickups. How would you describe the difference in the tone of the Gretschbuckers vs your Blacktops? I'm most un-chilled about my bridge pickup. Its got a hollow sound where I want it to be more bright and shimmery. Any big difference there?

[The Marlin]

You'll loose money on the 5122 if you sell it now. Prices have dropped since the new models have come to market.

I'd keep the 5122, put a better nut on the guitar (a well cut brass nut), and a Compton bridge. Then, shove a set of filters/DeArmonds/TV Jones in there, and your're all set.

I got a new Pro Jet with the black top filters when that came out, and the nut was useless, and the pots junk. So, you would likely need to spend more money tweaking the 5422 if you went for that option.

Marlin

[Roosto]

Originally Posted by mike fried

I just got a Caddy Green 5420 from Musician's Friend and love it. The Blacktop Filtertrons are a big improvement over the Gretschbuckers in the 51xx's, and they will swap out for other Gretsch or TVJ filters if you don't like them. Bigsby tuning issues are usually related to the nut slots binding, not the bridge (especially with B6/B3/B11 types without a tension bar) - this one has a AOM bridge and it's fine as long as I keep the nut slots slippery w/ pencil lead. My Epi Swingster has a roller TOM and it hold its tuning exactly the same as the 5420 (well), so my conclusion is that the bridge type will affect the tone much more than it will the Bigsby's tuning.

Hi. Do you have a pic or two you could share with us? Like to see that.

[toddfan]

If you can return the 5122 for full credit, I'd go for the 5422.

-there is a chance that you will like the Blacktop Filtertrons "as is" and not have to upgrade from Gretschbuckers.
-You can get a cool color!!!!
-I've seen and heard the new models and the fit/finish/playability of the ones I saw were first rate.
-You'll have this year's model, instead of the "old" model which (as reported above) is now worth less than it was a couple months ago for resale purposes.

[Synchro]

Originally Posted by toddfan

If you can return the 5122 for full credit, I'd go for the 5422.

-there is a chance that you will like the Blacktop Filtertrons "as is" and not have to upgrade from Gretschbuckers.
-You can get a cool color!!!!
-I've seen and heard the new models and the fit/finish/playability of the ones I saw were first rate.
-You'll have this year's model, instead of the "old" model which (as reported above) is now worth less than it was a couple months ago for resale purposes.

I'd agree with ToddFan IF you can return it.

The tuning issue is almost certainly string binding at the nut and I would not even consider replacing it. Check to see which strings are binding and carefully widen those slots ever so slightly. This is a fairly common issue so even if you trade into a 5422 you may see it again.

As far as bridges are concerned I suggest a Compton bridge in whatever material suits you. It helps the sound considerably to have a solid bridge.

[dgshooter]

5422 is a no brainer. Humpblock inlays on the fretboard, binding on the F-holes, upgraded pick-ups.

[echo]

Unfortunately I'm overdue returning it, so they're charging me a restocking fee, and I have to ship it to them (and the new one costs $50 more) so I'll be out about 200 bucks to do the trade. Plus the cost of the setup on the new one.

Its a tough decision.

[freddyfingers]

200 bucks is a beating. But add up how much new pickups are, plus a bridge, and if you need to pay someone too put in the pickups. At that point, you may be over 200. I haven't heard the newer black top pick ups. I would play one, and see if its the sound that works for you,. No sense in getting it, and being in the same boat you are now in. Strongly urge you to play before you buy! Either way, congrats!

[mike fried]

Originally Posted by echo

Hi Mike,

Most of the day i was leaning towards the 5422, but then the consensus seems to be that I can fix the tuning on my 5122 at the nut, and I've been playing it for about 3 hours tonight and for some reason the tuning seems to be less of an issue.

I use the Bigsby more to flatten the strings than to sharpen them, and this got me picturing them sliding over the nut, towards the headstock more often than towards the body, and then sticking instead of traveling back- because they almost always go sharp. So I tried lifting up on the bar to pull them back, and it actually seems to work! Maybe a locking nut would be good?

If I eliminate the tuning issue from the decision, that leaves the pickups. How would you describe the difference in the tone of the Gretschbuckers vs your Blacktops? I'm most un-chilled about my bridge pickup. Its got a hollow sound where I want it to be more bright and shimmery. Any big difference there?

Hi echo, the Gretschbuckers I'ved played were factory-setups, so I'm not sure if they were really optimized, but out of the box the I thought the Blacktops had a little more of everything, but especially jangle. Tweaking the pole screws and overall height for your strings and playing style can improve them even further. I spent some time doing that with mine and it really payed off.

As for a locking nut, I think that unless you're dive-bombing the Bigsby, it's overkill (with a Bigsby I define "dive-bombing" as dropping any string more than a whole step ). If you don't, a well-slotted and lubed nut should do just fine, and I'd certainly try that route first anyway. Your diagnosis of the strings sticking and returning sharp is on the money.

[mike fried]

Originally Posted by Roosto

Hi. Do you have a pic or two you could share with us? Like to see that.

J
Hi Roosto, I would if I could but I'm away from the guitar for about a week right now (and missing it ). I'll try to do that when I get back home, although I'm sure it'll be "old news" by then... It is a very handsome instrument!

[echo]

I don't know if there's a brand loyalty thing going on between these two sites, but I confess that I've been leaning on both of them, in my hours of need.

But I finally bit the bullet and made a decision, at like 11:57 pm last night, and decided to go with the 5422. Had I plugged into all of your generous knowledge a few weeks earlier, I probably would have gotten the orange unit singing so true that you would have had to pry it from my petrified fingers.

But since that never happened, I started looking at it in terms of the shortest route to a happy outcome, which now looks like opening up the new box, probably fiddling with the nut a bit, and putting off any bridge or pickup changes until I'm ready.

I know that I barely know anything about these guitars, but almost all of what I do know I've learned from you folks in the last few days. I really appreciate the advice and insights I've gotten from everyone. So thanks again. I'll check back in after I've had the 5422 for a while, and I'm sure I'll have a few more questions down the road.

I think that all you need to do is look at these instruments to get an idea what kind of people would be drawn to them. I think you'd be right.

[Crooner]

I think you did the right thing, Echo. I'm sure spending the extra $200 wasn’t easy, but as Freddy said, you would have spent at least that in upgrading the 5122.
Best of luck with the new git and let us know your impressions when she arrives.

[fender62custom]

5422 for me....all the best with it!!!!! cheers!!

[echo]

Anyone got a picture of a green 5422?

[Roosto]

Originally Posted by The Marlin

You'll loose money on the 5122 if you sell it now. Prices have dropped since the new models have come to market.

Marlin

Initially at least, to what levels do you think the prices of used 5120's and 5122's will fall with the release of the 5420 and 5422?

[jacodiego]

It may be shameless self-promotion, but I wrote a little article on nuts and tuning issues the other day:

http://www.l2pnet.com/blogs/lube-your-nuts-06242012

[Anni_Lover]

Originally Posted by echo

Anyone got a picture of a green 5422?

Not yet, but apparently there are two shades of green available - "Cadillac Green" and "Aspen Green" as mentioned in this short thread over at the GDP:

http://gretschpages.com/forum/electr...s/52707/page1/

[echo]

Originally Posted by echo

Anyone got a picture of a green 5422?

Here are some pics on another thread... but since the Caddy Green is Musician's Friend only, its not in this lineup, which is too bad since that's the one I want to see.