hey all !sooo how would you rig for a live performance....?
gonna play at a party april and have som questions.
ok so we have a gretsch cc and a fender blues deluxe amp, upright and drums
and a pa for vocal! so do we mick the guitar amp and run it trough the pa?need a mixer? and what about drums? mic or not?

well thats it for now cheers

It all depends on the size of the place you are playing. The bigger the space, the more you need to mike. If its a small club, perhaps only the vocals.

ok its a small venue its just a party with friends... but will the sound improve? sound fuller? if the guitar and drums is micked and routed trough the pa also
thanks

When playing a small party volume is usually a problem (too much, that is). I can't imagine that micing the drums would help the situation, especially since they are usually the problem. I have played some large parties and medium sized clubs with only the vocals mic'd.

i wouldn't mike drum and guitar
they go loud enough the way they are
you don't need the extra volume
and it's alot of work to get it right just for maybe a hint of better quality
and since the audience will hear the drum and the amplified drum together it'll just be messed up

This is kind of like the 'how long is a piece of string?" question.
Generally, in a small venue (up to, say, 160) if the band is well positioned, you don't need to mic anything except the vocals.
Open air you're wise to mic everything, even if it's a backyard party, because the open air does weird things to sound and the PA will at least spread it evenly over your audience area.
But it depends on other stuff, too, If your bass player has an amplifier, then don't mic up in small venues. But if he's feeding directly into the PA via a D.I., then his sound will be going where your guitar sound isn't, so you're wise to mic up in that situation.
And you haven't said how big your PA is, or how many channels your mixing desk has.

Some guitarists want to be mic'd just so they can hear their guitar through the foldback no matter where they stand on stage. Vocalists generally don't want anything but vocals coming back at them. A drummer will usually want a 'full mix' coming back at him, if he can get it. But remember that foldbacks drain power from your front-of-house, so if your PA isn't powerful, you'll want a separate power amp to run them.
And finally, you haven't said whether you'll have a sound man. If so, the you can get pretty complicated, but if you're running the PA as well as performing on stage, then you want to keep your rig stripped to the bare necessities.
If you think a pedalboard acting up on stage is bad, a PA going rogue will SERIOUSLY spoil your night!

We play small/medium sized clubs and function rooms and still use the PA only for vocals. We tend to know how loud everything needs to sound on stage to be reasonably balanced out front. Just to be sure, a mate in the audience will indicate after the first number if anything is too loud or too quiet.

Putting mics on the drums can have repercussions for your PA if you usually only have top boxes just for vocals. You might well need subs to cope with the kick drum, although if you just need to give the kit a bit of a lift try a single Shure SM57 just above the bass drum and pointing towards the snare.

However, if you're playing a party gig, I can't imagine the drummer will need any assistance. If you have to, just tell him to hit harder!

Fletch: well i kinda wanted it to be that kind of question as i wanted thoughts around this stuff in general as i know far to little about it...
its a small gig and i dont think i need to mic anything but the vocal!
but i plan on doing some outdoor gigs when summer arrives so thanks for the heads up on that!!

i was over at a buddy that recorded us with mics and his home studio
and we thought we never sounded that good before :) so i thought micking and going trough a mixer would make the live sound better but i guess its not
that easy! thanks for the help

dennison: i think balance in sound is the thing we struggle with the most and
sometimes its just way to loud :D

No mic... Just set up the amps to just get over the drums, then mix in the vocals. Do this at like every practice too.

Whoever has the best ears should just stand in the middle of the sound field, and while the drummer plays, have someone mix the amps, then the vocals.

"i think balance in sound is the thing we struggle with the most and
sometimes its just way to loud"

chally440: Get someone you can trust — someone with a bit of common sense and a good pair of ears, not a head case — and ask them to listen out front. They should tell you if the balance is right or not. Failing that, get a long guitar lead and go and stand out front yourself during a quick sound check. That should tell you if the sound balance is right or not. Once you've got it right, stick to it. With just guitar, bass and drums it can't be that difficult.

It all comes down to the drummer.(and sometimes the guitarist too) If you got a drummer that dosnt feel the need to hit hard as he can on every beat, and can play with some restraint, dynamics, and taste, and the guitarist is not an egomaniac who feels he MUST be the LOUDEST all the time, the all you need to do is mic the vocals and everybody set their levels accordingly.
Unless he has a hugely powerful rig, its the upright whos gonna have the most problem being heard. Keep everything down at his level.
Make sure the drummer and guitar don't get into a volume war and all will be well.
Just remember the vocals should be way louder than everybody else. Don't get into a volume war where you drown out the PA.

I always say, "Everything louder than everything else!"

Too much volume is a common mistake. For a small gig any decent PA and your guitar amp will be fine. Bassists need a lot more power but even a 100 watt bass amp will fill many a venue.

ok its a small venue its just a party with friends... but will the sound improve? sound fuller? if the guitar and drums is micked and routed trough the pa also
thanks

Small venue than mic the vocals only. Anything more may overtax the PA system. I don't know what kind of PA your going through.

If the stand up bass has a pickup then they can go through a bass amp.

By all means, if you can, avoid micing the band. Get a nice vocal tone and do it old school. The less mics the better. People get annoyed by a hyped, loud PA mix. Let that upright breath, maybe just maybe bring an amp for it if there is no thump in the room. Put the vocals in a small PA nice and clean. If you need more volume, tell the band to play harder.

I'm tired of playing places where the drummer is in a booth and the amps are off stage and the soundman is lord of the band's sound space. Let it breath. People are starving to just hear an actual live band in the room with no PA. If you do, I guarantee someone will comment how cool you sound, because everything is tuned, processed and perfected to a nauseating degree today.

hey all !sooo how would you rig for a live performance....?
gonna play at a party april and have som questions.
ok so we have a gretsch cc and a fender blues deluxe amp, upright and drums
and a pa for vocal! so do we mick the guitar amp and run it trough the pa?need a mixer? and what about drums? mic or not?

well thats it for now cheers

Hi Chally, having read through the posts, you've certainly been given some excellent advise.

Just to add, vocals are often the element that get lost so worth bearing in mind, try and keep them 'on top' of the overall balance.

Does that upright have a pickup ? If it doesn't it's likely to get swamped by everything else.

I too wouldn't advocate mic'ing the drums

Finally, please please do a sound check. Get someone who's ears you trust to stand out front. It's amazing how different the band can sound from that perspective. Also the sound will change when the venue fills up, gets much deader sounding which is usually a help

Importantly: Good Luck

By all means, if you can, avoid micing the band. Get a nice vocal tone and do it old school. The less mics the better. People get annoyed by a hyped, loud PA mix. Let that upright breath, maybe just maybe bring an amp for it if there is no thump in the room. Put the vocals in a small PA nice and clean. If you need more volume, tell the band to play harder.

I'm tired of playing places where the drummer is in a booth and the amps are off stage and the soundman is lord of the band's sound space. Let it breath. People are starving to just hear an actual live band in the room with no PA. If you do, I guarantee someone will comment how cool you sound, because everything is tuned, processed and perfected to a nauseating degree today.

Well said WATThouse!

wow guys thanks for all the help i ve been away on holiday and just got home
to see there has been allot of kind and helpful pointers thanks all