Hi guys,

Hope some guitar builders on this forum can help me. I am in the process of building my first 17'' gretsch-a-like archtop guitar. I am using all solid flamed maple and I have had some issues bending the sides as they were cracking at several points. I have managed to bend them with steam in the end but still there are those cracks that I need to fix. I was thinking of fixing them with Cyanoacrylate Glue but the question I have is related to the fact that I wanted to color the whole guitar red with water soluble dyes and I am afraid it is not going to get coloured at those points. Does anyone have some experience with similar issues?

Thanks in advance

Paolo

Here are also some pictures, this is the worste one. Any help is highly appreciated

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/paolomartelli/DSC00766.jpg

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/paolomartelli/DSC00765.jpg

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/paolomartelli/DSC00764.jpg

OOOOOoooo Bugger. Good luck to you my friend. Hope you can fix it.

that is a serious crack, i would have cut thinner strips and laminated them together it gives them a bit more flexibility, do u think ur gonna be able to sand it enough that u cant see it? if it was me id do the sides again

that is a serious crack, i would have cut thinner strips and laminated them together it gives them a bit more flexibility, do u think ur gonna be able to sand it enough that u cant see it? if it was me id do the sides again

Not sure if I will be able to sand all, thicknes there is about 1.8mm and the crack goes for half the thickness of the side. I was planning to put some sort of support on the inside to provide some strength but what bothers me now is how to treat it to make it invisible from the outside.

Will sleep it over redoing the sides again but I am afraid it will happen again, and will like to understand already how to deal with this. Bending with steam made it much easier but I am not sure if this crack was already there from using the bending iron or if I tried bending under steam too fast.....

you could get hold of some cheaper laminated pieces and practice on them before you do it with the maple, i know some people soak the wood first then bend it clamp it in place and leave it to dry

have a look at guitarmaker's threads he hasnt been around for a while but theres some great pictures of the techniques and type of pieces he uses for his archtops, he knows much more than me about building archtops ill find one of his threads for u, u could try sending him a message he was more than helpful to me when i started building

this one is unfinished but its got the mould and u can see the thickness pieces he uses, the other thread i was thinking of was finished but the pictures dont seem to be coming up
http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/technical-side-things/21110-building-country-gent-gents.html

this one is unfinished but its got the mould and u can see the thickness pieces he uses, the other thread i was thinking of was finished but the pictures dont seem to be coming up
http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/technical-side-things/21110-building-country-gent-gents.html

Many thanks, I will read it tomorrow as now it is late. I see already that he is using laminates sides and I really want to use solid wood. Will ask him advise for sure and look for his other thread as well.

Cheers

paolo

Not sure about bending a solid piece of maple. Seems they use steam and a press to make the bends in the rims of guitars. Not something I would tackle without the proper equipment. +1 for your efforts and hope you get it sorted out. I envy all who undertake building there own guitar.
Pop's

I know nothing about guitar building or woodwork/carpentry, but I would have thought the grain on the sides should run parallel to the top and back, (ie at right angle to what you currently have), surely?? It seems to me that's why it's cracked.;)

Unless, of course, I'm veiwing the pics incorrectly.

There is nothing cheap or second rate about using laminate woods, especially on the rims. The guitar companies use laminates for reasons far beyond cost, such as durability.

I know nothing about guitar building or woodwork/carpentry, but I would have thought the grain on the sides should run parallel to the top and back, (ie at right angle to what you currently have), surely?? It seems to me that's why it's cracked.;)

Unless, of course, I'm veiwing the pics incorrectly.

The grains are running parallel to the top, those that you are seeing are the flames

Not sure if I will be able to sand all, thicknes there is about 1.8mm and the crack goes for half the thickness of the side. I was planning to put some sort of support on the inside to provide some strength but what bothers me now is how to treat it to make it invisible from the outside.

Will sleep it over redoing the sides again but I am afraid it will happen again, and will like to understand already how to deal with this. Bending with steam made it much easier but I am not sure if this crack was already there from using the bending iron or if I tried bending under steam too fast.....

ran into the same problem making the edging for this guitar. these two were no problem the other two were different wood and kept splitting onthe grain no matter what i did. so the advice to make the sides again is good advice. also the ply advice is good advice.. also you cant make the bend in one shot you have to go back and fourth and move it a bit at atime on the bending iron.

I think its just the flame, its always gunna be weaker in every second flame.

My opinion is your asking to much for it bend.

Cheers to making the effort. Looks good! Lets put those big companies out of business!

Hey there,

Building an archtop is a different animal! I build classicals and acoustics. In my opinion, that side is a gonner. Temperature hot enough during the bend? It's got to be up over 300 F. I've never cracked a side or bindings (yet). Cheers.

Dave

Hi all,

I am afraid I am going to redo them but now will change the approach. Will build an inside mould with holes where to fix the clamps. The mould will have some legs so that I can put a hot plate and a pan with boiling water underneatha and will fasten the clamps gradually when the wood softens. For the sharp bends (waist and cutawy) will make small portions of the mold as well to make it easier. Anyone can foresse issues with this?

Still, I am going to try to save those sides if possible and use them for my next archtop project that I was not planning to colour.

Having a little trouble with the phone app. Any opinions on tv jones pickups?

My suggestion would be....
take a deep breath
cut a square of white t-shirt material just large enough to cover the inside of where the crack is. Super glue it to the inside of the rim to reinforce it and keep it from further travel. Make sure every bit of the t-shirt material is soaked in CA glue, just enough to make sure there are no air bubbles and it's completely bonded to the inside of the rim.
Let is completely dry.

Get a long pipette and put just tiny drops into the deepest part of the crack, the part that is facing outside. Use a thick CA. You don't want to get the glue to run out to the outside edge, so in this case, less is better. When you have just a tiny bead at the crack depth, secure it by just bending the crack closed and hold it until it sets. Make sure no CA runs out of the crack and if does, wipe it off immediately. At this point, just go ahead and complete the rim assembly, and glue the top and back in place. Now you will have the ugly seam to contend with. Sand in one direction only in the direction of the grain, NOT against it. Feather it out until it's as invisible as it's going to get. Now, if you are absolutely dead set on staining the wood itself, understand you will have a noticeable darker line of color at the crack. You can hide that if you put on a few coats of clear, and touch up that area with a tinted clear in an airbrush. You'll have to go over it several times to blend away any color differences.
I cracked a 335 rim I was building, it broke off just below the top ear. It is a really nasty bend, extremely sharp, if you know the shape. I did all the above, but it was a burst, so I was able to cover some of the sides with tobacco brown to almost solid color, and that absolutely made it invisible.

Plan B... put it on the shelf, save it, get new wood and/or some practice wood and do a new set of sides. In the future, you can fix the crack if you don't feel up to it now. I never throw away anything. I always know I'll eventually figure it out and use it.

Hi All,

I think I have to give an update now. It took me some time to fix the cracks but it looks like I managed and then for one reason or another I have forgotten to leave an update. In the end I have fixed the cracks with hide glue. It takes some time to "know" the glue bu the good thing i that it is reversible so if the crack does not close properly I could reopen them with water and heat and start again. I had 2 cracks that were very close that have been a real pain to deal with as they were always re-opening when I was fixing the one next to it. After sanding they are still somehow visible but I hope I will not see much after staining. I have made a try on a leftover of maple and do not see any sign. Finger crossed for the actual guitar now.

Ciao

Paolo

It looks like you are trying to bend the sides from material that is too thick. Also, with maple, use very, very little water and try bending with a hot pipe or use a side bender. Sandwiching the sides between stainless steel slats also will help by providing some support to prevent breakout where the grain of the wood has runout.

You can fix the breaks if the wood is bent & dry. I cut a couple cauls the radius of the bend, for the inside & outside of the bend, glue it & clamp it. Bending sides is an art. Using the correct thickness is the first thing to check. Stewmac sells replacements that are the right thickness. Some suppliers peices need to be planed thinner. Don't get frustrated. Bend the sides when you are relaxed & not rushed for time.