I bought a GFS NYII set, and the neck pickup is supposed to be reverse wound/reverse polarity, to get hum canceling when both pickups are on.

I have the set installed in a guitar, but I can't accomplish the hum canceling with standard wiring. The middle position sounds great, but it actually just seems to double the hum. The hum is only canceled when I reverse the hot and ground on one pickup, but then the middle position also has a thin, nasal sound. Out of phase?

I contacted GFS about this, but have gotten no reply from them. Someone please help, I've been trying to get this guitar in playing shape for months now...

Well I could show you how they do it with Dearmond 2000's if you want. My wiring harness is out and I can take some detailed pictures Although I'm not sure it can be done with 1 vol and one tone and a 3 way, cause My pups are soldered to the backs of the pots instead of direct to switch. But I'm looking around online for another way.


These are from Danlectro, but try that and see if it helps.
http://www.led-zepped.com/59dcwiring.jpg

Half of knowing how to do anything is just knowing where to look. Seriously A Google search for "Single Coils In Series" and five minutes is all it took to find this schematic.

Thanks...

I have tried Google searches, but haven't found anything helpful. I do try to avoid asking stupid questions on forums, but now I just really need to get this guitar wired and playing, so I gave up trying to figure this out on my own.

My main concern, I guess, is that I don't even know if the problem is in the way the pickups are wired or if the neck pickup just isn't actually RW/RP for some reason.

That Danelectro diagram seems to have the switch wired differently. The original minibuckers on this guitar were wired neck hot to left lug, bridge hot to right lug, and then a hot from the center lug to the volume etc. All grounds to the back of the switch. I just wired the NYIIs the exact same way.

http://www.irongear.co.uk/2%20x%20a90,%201%20vol,%201%20tone,%203-way%20toggle%20igwatermark.gif

That is how it's wired now, with all pickup grounds, including the casing grounds, grounded at the ground lug of the switch. If the neck pickup is RW/RP, shouldn't this wiring accomplish the hum cancel in middle position?

That dano diagram is the way to go. I'm. Not rly sure what to tell you.

Your diagram looks like a standard one, where the middle lug isnt in series. When you engauge the switch the individual pups on the dano one it shorts them out of series into seperate pups.
The middle pos being an off basically sends both pups to the pots in series bypassing the switch and going into the vol/tone circuit.

Hello:

I found this comment in a post:

Check with a compass. A RWRP (reverse wound reverse polarity) set can have two identical coils (most humbuckers) wound the same way, but one has the magnet reversed and the opposite wires used for hot and cold. It is not necessary to actually wind the coil backwards, it is the connections that are reversed.

link (http://www.tdpri.com/forum/just-pickups/305084-wind-polarity-hum-cancelling.html)

So I suppose it means the pole piece magnets must always be reversed in one of the PUs and then you have to options, the wiring is reversed and PU is wound the same way the other PU, or you connect a standard wounded PU reversed by swapping the cables.

With this "reversing twice" action in one of the two PUs (first with the magnet and then with wiring-or-wound) you avoid the out of phase effect in middle position but external interferences will cancel itself as they act in the exact opposite way in every PU at the same time.

I almost get it but it makes some sense (if you don't have a compass use a magnet and being closer to the PU with one end of the magnet, one PU must to attract it and the other PU must to repulse it).

cheers

hi again

I own the same PUs but never installed. They came unglued from the metal chassis. I tried the bridge PU in my duo jet and was too much change for me (I mean not an improvement but a total different guitar).

I got the PUs with me and it seems the wiring of the Neck PU is reversed but I think the magnets at the back are not (I tried a magnet to see the effect an suddenly one magnet of the PU was coming out and then the other, they are clearly bad glued with a little bit of superglue at the back of the PU). Luckily I mark them before.

My impression is that the magnets are placed reversed in the PUs, but as they are two of them in each PU I am a little confused... I hope some PUs expert let us know the correct way to do it.

cheers

Cheers.

If the neck pickup is RW/RP, shouldn't this wiring accomplish the hum cancel in middle position?

Yes, that's the whole purpose of doing a Reverse Wind/Reverse Polarity...

FWIW.. I've read several reports on GFS screwing up the wiringcode, or calibrated sets actually being 2 of the same pickups, which shouldn't come as a big surprise given the pricepoint. It's not epidemic, but it does happen. Just send them a email.

FWIW2.. The dano schematic screws with the wiring code. I'm not familair with Dano electronics, but generally a wirecolour indicates wether it's "hot" OR "ground", not both... This may well be the secret ingredient to the danosound and the schematic may be in fact correct(again I don't know), but trying to apply the same logic to another brand of pickups(read wiringcode) might make things a bit more complicated than they need to be.

I found this youtube video, I hope will help

Identifying Pickup Wires & Polarities

Hey 4thfloor, i'm sorry to hear that.

I wired mine like that irongear diagram and they work perfect. They are my only Singlecoil PU's that don't hum.
BTW i had that Glue Experince with mine too, i used Silikon to glue them.

Like Rich said, go ahead and send GFS a e- mail.


Matt

Yes, that's the whole purpose of doing a Reverse Wind/Reverse Polarity...

FWIW.. I've read several reports on GFS screwing up the wiringcode, or calibrated sets actually being 2 of the same pickups, which shouldn't come as a big surprise given the pricepoint. It's not epidemic, but it does happen. Just send them a email.


Yeah, I found someone else's post on another Gretsch forum about this same problem with the same NY II pickups.

I already asked GFS about this, they just told me to try soldering the grounds to the back of the volume pot, but I really don't see why this would make any difference. There is a ground going from the ground lug to the back of the vol pot anyway.

I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner, but it just occurred to me that it's pretty easy to check if they're the same pickups - the neck pickup is supposed to be shorter than the bridge one, so if they're the same length, that's it, then. I'll check that as soon as I get back home.

either way, you have some sort of wiring issue happening. The reverse wound pickup 'should' have the same color leads as the normal one, you just wire them in and the hum should go away naturally. In other words, black goes to black, white goes to white.

If they screwed up the pickups you will probably not get it to work...

The magnets also fell off my NY11s' and I had to re-glue them. Although I put them back exactly as they were I got the "nasel" sound when both pickups were on together so I flipped the wiring on one of them to solve the problem.

The magnets also fell off my NY11s' and I had to re-glue them. Although I put them back exactly as they were I got the "nasel" sound when both pickups were on together so I flipped the wiring on one of them to solve the problem.

And this right here strikes me as the problem. My guess is the 2nd wiring attempt was actually right, but the magnet is out of phase. Can you get to it to flop it over?

Why don't you leave it out of fase? The quacky-wah sound is so cool.
I reversed DeArmonds in a Pro Jet by mistake, I left it with a quacky b+n.

Not sure if my two NYII PUs are the same size ;(

Yes, that's the whole purpose of doing a Reverse Wind/Reverse Polarity...

FWIW.. I've read several reports on GFS screwing up the wiringcode, or calibrated sets actually being 2 of the same pickups, which shouldn't come as a big surprise given the pricepoint. It's not epidemic, but it does happen. Just send them a email.

FWIW2.. The dano schematic screws with the wiring code. I'm not familair with Dano electronics, but generally a wirecolour indicates wether it's "hot" OR "ground", not both... This may well be the secret ingredient to the danosound and the schematic may be in fact correct(again I don't know), but trying to apply the same logic to another brand of pickups(read wiringcode) might make things a bit more complicated than they need to be.

Ignore wiring code... translate to your own wiring code. It was only to give a proper diagram... you always ground to back of pots, so assume the wiring going from the pup to the back of the pot is the Ground color.

And this right here strikes me as the problem. My guess is the 2nd wiring attempt was actually right, but the magnet is out of phase. Can you get to it to flop it over?

I would have flipped the magnets in one pickup but I re-glued my magnets so well that I could'nt do that. If your magnets have not been re-glued they should be easy to change round. I usually use a sharpie to mark the original orientation before doing this sort of thing.

Ignore wiring code... translate to your own wiring code. It was only to give a proper diagram... you always ground to back of pots, so assume the wiring going from the pup to the back of the pot is the Ground color.

That's nice, except these are NEW pups, never installed, so you have no reference as to which colour goes where...back of a pot or otherwise...:rolleyes:

The reverse wound pickup 'should' have the same color leads as the normal one, you just wire them in and the hum should go away naturally. In other words, black goes to black, white goes to white.

If they screwed up the pickups you will probably not get it to work...

I'm pretty sure that's the case here and I have to get a replacement for one of the pickups.

Why don't you leave it out of fase? The quacky-wah sound is so cool.
I reversed DeArmonds in a Pro Jet by mistake, I left it with a quacky b+n.

I preferred the in phase sound, the tone was perfectly balanced for what I intend to use this guitar for. However, the out of phase tone does have its uses so I'm thinking of adding a switch or a push-pull pot to be able to go from in phase to out of phase. But first I have to get the basic wiring right.

Hello:

I looked for this topic in the web and here it is.

The NYII is basically a P90 but with pole pieces instead screws.
As you can see here in this picture from stewmac:

http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1206&pictureid=8478

The two magnets are installed pointing their south pole to the pole-pieces and even they repeal each other in that way, they together (being in contact with the metal pole pieces), create a magnet flux conducted by the pole pieces to the surface of the pu (green arrow).

As a P90 convention, the magnets orientation seem to be always south in contact with the pole pieces.



Hum seem to be canceled when you connect two similar coils out of phase at the same, no matter the orientation of the magnets that belong to the coils. It means that flipping the magnets of the coils (if any) will not make that an existing hum disappear.

But magnet orientation do affects the phase of the guitar signal of the PU: if you swap the magnet polarity, the signal become out of phase.

Also if you swap only the coil cables (and not the magnets) the signal will be out of phase.

So, what if we swap both the cables and the magnets? the answer is that the signal is out of phase twice, so it remains the same.

If now we connect the PU that we haven't modified (still in phase with the modified PU) the hum will disappear due the coils out of phase. So in this combination of coils and magnets the guitar signal is in phase and the hum is gone.

I hope my spanglish is enough to explain this, and I am sorry if I am wrong.

So the problem here is that the bridge and the neck magnets are not reversed in polarity, it means that reversing the cables of one PU the hum is gone, but the phase is also reversed (a the weak sound appears).

Note that can also be that only one of the two magnets of the one P90 is bad oriented (I mean they don't repeal each other to create the correct flux to the surface of the guitar and then the PU sounds weak no matter how you connect it.

I hope you have patient reading this long comment and it helps anyone.

Cheers.

PS: my two NYII pus also are not polarity reversed, even the cables are.

Nice diagram. It's true that NY11s' are of similar construction to P90s' but they don't have the bottom plate that retains the magnets and use adhesive instead. As mentioned before both sets of magnets fell off my NY11s', I can't even blame a bad batch as the were purchased at different times. I would suggest that before you install these pickups you check that the magnets are secure and the right way round, it could save having to deal with problems later.

Nice diagram. It's true that NY11s' are of similar construction to P90s' but they don't have the bottom plate that retains the magnets and use adhesive instead. As mentioned before both sets of magnets fell off my NY11s', I can't even blame a bad batch as the were purchased at different times. I would suggest that before you install these pickups you check that the magnets are secure and the right way round, it could save having to deal with problems later.

my magnets and cases fell off/apart on my seconhand NYIII's, but you can easily just put them back together. They just kinda hang-out on the back of the pup. Made me a little nervous but they sound great now.

And as far as translating the wiring from the NEW pickups ricochet, its not that difficult seeing as how GFS Tells you whats whats what when you get them. There is a positive(white), negative(red) and a braided groud as well.The instructions say you could get unwanted noise from the braided ground. I guess I still just dont see the issue.

I was able to get a compass to try the polarity of the magnets of the PUs and my NYII set is correct.

I mean the magnets are reverse polarity and the cables are swap in the neck PU compared with the bridge PU (that means a correct set).

I find out an easy way to test the magnet polarity that is to join the surfaces of both PUs (where the strings normally are), if you fell attraction between the pole-pices the NYII set is ok, if you fell no attraction, the set is not ok.

I hope this helps too, and I am sorry to write in my last post that my set was not ok when it really was.

cheers.

Well, problem "solved": turns out I have two neck pickups.

Both are the same height and they repel each other. I sure wish I had checked these things before I installed them, but I guess I just assumed I was getting what I bought...

I contacted GFS, they asked for pictures of the pickups. I hope they send a replacement soon and don't start quibbling about this.

Thanks for all the info anyway, I did learn a thing or two from this thread!

EDIT:
Just got an e-mail from GFS saying they're sending a bridge pickup ASAP.

Well, problem "solved": turns out I have two neck pickups.

Both are the same height and they repel each other. I sure wish I had checked these things before I installed them, but I guess I just assumed I was getting what I bought...

I contacted GFS, they asked for pictures of the pickups. I hope they send a replacement soon and don't start quibbling about this.

Thanks for all the info anyway, I did learn a thing or two from this thread!

EDIT:
Just got an e-mail from GFS saying they're sending a bridge pickup ASAP.

Glad it worked out.

And as far as translating the wiring from the NEW pickups ricochet, its not that difficult seeing as how GFS Tells you whats whats what when you get them. There is a positive(white), negative(red) and a braided groud as well.The instructions say you could get unwanted noise from the braided ground. I guess I still just dont see the issue.

In the very first post it says: I have the set installed in a guitar, but I can't accomplish the hum canceling with standard wiring.
You want to continue this?

In the very first post it says:
You want to continue this?

I mean the OP is good now. problem was miss-matched pickups. so I dont have an issue.

I dont see what YOUR problem is at this point. I was just saying it wasn't an issue of knowing which wire is which or where it goes as much as he might just have wired it up as two standard single coils rather than in series. (he did say standard wiring if you look @ the diagram he posted after the dano one)

I just dont see the relevance in any of your comments directed toward me about messing with or translating wiring codes. Because I was only going from assuming he had 2 separate pickups, or the proper orientation of them. He asked if his wiring was right, I showed what I would do...

and I guess I'm just missing what your throwing at me? But you obviously want to assert something???

I guess I'm just missing what your throwing at me? But you obviously want to assert something???

I'm not purposedly busting your balls... It's just that I can't follow your logic at all. Let's just say it's my problem if it makes you feel better.

Well, I am happy if they send you a new PU, only one thing to clarify: when my set was correct the pole-pieces attrack each other, but when they was not correct I fell almost nothing (I can not call it repeal each other but something like if they was not magnets at all).

I added the one page manual that comes with the Guitar Fetish PU if anybody is interested.

cheers

Front:
http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1206&pictureid=8528

Back:
http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1206&pictureid=8529