Hi there oh knowledgeable ones, ;)

I have a 1966 Harmony Meteor H70 hollow body archtop that it a little scruffy and I want to install a Bigsby on it. I am also wanting to fit an aluminium Compton bridge to replace my wooden one. The problem is I don't know which model Bigsby is suitable. I have seen pictures of Meteors with several types of Bigsby, some look shorter like a B3, some look longer like a B6 and some have had a pressure bar like the B7.

I reckon you guys on this forum might be able to help me figure it out, as many of your lovely Gretschs have many similarities to the Meteor - floating bridge, hollow body etc. So, any ideas what Bigsby I need?

Cosmetically I actually prefer the look of the B11 or B12 as they are more in keeping with the styling of the original tailpiece. I'd probably prefer not to have to drill holes in the top for the B12 pressure bar model, but if the B11 style won't work properly then so be it.

Here's some measurements of the guitar:

The distance from the endpin to the bridge is 8 1/2 inches.
The current tailpiece is about 5 1/4 inches long (not including the hinge) and the strings emerge at about 3/8 inch high. There is a gap of about 3 1/2 inches from the tailpiece to the bridge.

The bridge is about 1 inch tall.

The guitar body is approx 1 3/4 inches (48mm) deep at the tail end where the hinge plate mounts.


Here's my thoughts and worries…..

The B11 is about 1 inch shorter than my current tailpiece and I'm worried that the height will be a lot more than the current 3/8 inch so this might reduce pressure on the bridge, perhaps causing it to slip and giving poor tone and volume?

The B12 on the other hand would end up much closer to the bridge – about 2 inches away, but then I worry if the angle would be too steep as my bridge is 1 inch tall.

If I knew what height that the strings emerge from the Bigsby that might help…..

Another thought is that the B6 looks the right length but the end plate looks too big for my thin guitar…. It looks like the B60 has a smaller end plate…. HELP!!! :eek:

Any advice please and ideas what would be the best choice?


Cheers,
Rick

Must be this type of guitar that i google/images.

For bridge measurements go to compton bridge site.

and for bigsby see pic of one i have available.

I think you will need the B-3 for the thinner hollowbodies.

Yep that's a Meteor, although it looks like the H71 blond model. Mine is H70 which is the same but in Sunburst. Here's a pic of it. It looks a lot more yellow in daylight.

You recommend the B6? Cool, what about the size of the hinge plate? The Bigsby site says it's 57mm, and my guitar is only 48mm thick

Ta,
Rick

I think you will need the B-3 for the thinner hollowbodies.

Yeah it seems like it would fit ok, but is it a bit on the short side? I guess it's only 1 inch shorter than my current tailpiece.

EDIT: Also, how long is the handle on a B3? There's about 4 inches to the tailpiece to the front of the bridge on the guitar. I'd like the handle to extend past the bridge an inch or two if possible

Rick

Yep that's a Meteor, although it looks like the H71 blond model. Mine is H70 which is the same but in Sunburst. Here's a pic of it. It looks a lot more yellow in daylight.

You recommend the B6? Cool, what about the size of the hinge plate? The Bigsby site says it's 57mm, and my guitar is only 48mm thick

Ta,
Rick

i just measured the B6 and it's good for a body no thinner than 1 1/4 inches and your 48mm = 1.9 inches.
then, you measure from the lenght of your tailpiece and you should have 5.5 inches (14cm) where your strings are hooked.
Overall lenght of the B6 handle from the strings attach point to the tip is 7 inches.
That B6 should fit correctly

Either the B6 or the B11 will work fine. The top section of the B11 is based on the B6 dimensions, the only real difference is the end hinge (and the cosmetic difference of the topside cutout). However, the B11 will work better, as the hinge is shorter (45mm). On a B6 you will have the end of the hinge hanging over the backside edge of the body.

The B3 would also work, but the handle will sit much further back on the body, and there will be a longer section of suspended string between the string bar and the bridge.

In your application, the B11 would be my first choice.

Either the B6 or the B11 will work fine. The top section of the B11 is based on the B6 dimensions, the only real difference is the end hinge (and the cosmetic difference of the topside cutout). However, the B11 will work better, as the hinge is shorter (45mm). On a B6 you will have the end of the hinge hanging over the backside edge of the body.

The B3 would also work, but the handle will sit much further back on the body, and there will be a longer section of suspended string between the string bar and the bridge.

In your application, the B11 would be my first choice.

The B6 hinge i have is only 32mm and his guitar is 48mm
i can't see the hinge extending anywhere near the bottom.
and sure i'll preach for my parish....i have that B6 available to whoever wants it.

Is the B6 you are measuring a B6, or a B6C (Gretsch, v-cutout)? The hinges are different. I just measured the B6C hinge on my 2011 125th Anni, and it measures 2 3/16 inches (56mm) in total length (point to top of hinge pin), and 2 inches (50mm) from the end point to the center of the hinge pin.

Is the B6 you are measuring a B6, or a B6C (Gretsch, v-cutout)? The hinges are different. I just measured the B6C hinge on my 2011 125th Anni, and it measures 2 3/16 inches (56mm) in total length, and 2 inches (50mm) from the end point to the center of the hinge pin.

The B6 i have is not the V cut type.
It's basically the same as found on the 5120.
And another member installed one just like the one i have on a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin

A 5120 has a licensed import B60, not a B6. Again, a different hinge type.

Check out the differences in the blueprints.

First, a B6:

http://www.bigsbyguitars.com/vibe/wp-content/uploads/BigsbyPrint-B6-1200.jpg


Next, the B11:

http://www.bigsbyguitars.com/vibe/wp-content/uploads/BigsbyPrint-B11-1200.jpg

Finally, the import B60:

http://www.bigsbyguitars.com/vibe/wp-content/uploads/BigsbyPrint-B60-1200.jpg

Your measurements correspond with the B60 model... in which case you ARE correct, the hinge on the B60 is substantially shorter than the other two.;) And yes you are correct again, that a B60 would also work for the Harmony application.

RicksterUK, when mounting the Bigsby, an important thing to remember is that the Bigsby should mount with the hinge pin sitting slightly above the rear top edge of the body. this allows the top section to lay at rest on the body. Don't make the mistake of mounting the top section flush with the body, in which case you could have issues with the string tension lifting or "floating" the top section.

Very sorry i totally forgot about that 0 .
Yep it is a licenced B60.

and here is a pic of a highly modified Godin.
dremel use to cut holes to fit the TVJONES

And here the thread for you Tartan
http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/other-cool-guitars/41525-kingpin-cw.html#post278183

Nice. I bet the TV Jones give it a killer sound! Are those Magnatrons? I can't tell from the picture if they are screw pole pieces or solid poles.

Thanks for your help tartanphantom and Gros Ouaso.

That Godin looks really nice, and I can imagine the dimensions of it aren't too different to the Meteor.

So is the B60 the one to go for then? I don't want a pressure bar on an archtop right?

Rick

No need for the tension bar as long as it IS an arch top and not a flat top.

As far as B60 vs. B11, it's really a matter of choice, and how much you want to spend.

The B11 is USA made, sandcast aluminum with a stock 1" spring and steel needle bearings.

The B60 is Far-East made, and is diecast aluminum with a stock 7/8" spring and nylon bearings.

They're made differently, they look different, and they definitely feel different. The import Bigsbys usually have a stiffer feel due to the nylon, but some folks prefer the extra stiffness in the response.

The USA-made B11 is about $25-50 more expensive than the import B60.

Thanks for your help tartanphantom and Gros Ouaso.

That Godin looks really nice, and I can imagine the dimensions of it aren't too different to the Meteor.

So is the B60 the one to go for then? I don't want a pressure bar on an archtop right?

Rick

If you get that B60 of my hands, it'll be just like the one you see on that Godin guitare.

And i gave you all the measurements above.

No need for the tension bar as long as it IS an arch top and not a flat top.

I do have a darn B12 that i wanted to install onto a Gibson SG but the hinges was extending way below the body.
That was an impulse buy at the time....just like the rest of us at times :):):)

Yes, the B5 is really the only Bigsby solution for an SG-- that's why Gibson used them-- the body is so thin.

Having installed at least three Bigsbys on vintage Harmony Rockets the B-3 is the right one. B-6 are for jumbo 3" and thicker archtops 17" big bodied like my Guild X500. You also want the strings as far back from the bridge as your breaking angle is going to be very slight. I have owned three harmony H78 and Silvertone 1454 same model and they all came with B3 Bigsbys. Your Metor H70 is the same body size as the H78. here are a couple pics of an H78and your H70 meteor with a Bigsby B3. Good luck with your project.

Yes the Meteor really has an arched top, not flat. So the B12 pressure bar may not be necessary - but would it be a mistake to fit a B12?

The B11 looks more like the length of the B3 to me from those blueprints, so the B60 is probably a better choice. Shame, I'd prefer a US Bigsby than an import really.

One more thing, I noticed the hinge plate on the B60 doesn't seem to have an endpin / strap pin hole marked on it. Is there one? or would it be possible to drill one out?

I need to sleep on it I think.....

On the B60, the center hole can be use for strap button and the two outside holes for the screws retaining the bigsby to the guitar. There is no stress on those two screws.
And the strap button also has a screw as well.
There is no way that bigsby would come apart.

Yes the Meteor really has an arched top, not flat. So the B12 pressure bar may not be necessary - but would it be a mistake to fit a B12?

The B11 looks more like the length of the B3 to me from those blueprints, so the B60 is probably a better choice. Shame, I'd prefer a US Bigsby than an import really.

One more thing, I noticed the hinge plate on the B60 doesn't seem to have an endpin / strap pin hole marked on it. Is there one? or would it be possible to drill one out?

I need to sleep on it I think.....

You would be screwing yourself putting on a B12 with the tension bar. If you notice the guitars that have the tension bar bigsbys are semi hollow or even solid bodies with fixed bridges and something solid to screw into. The B3 is what you guitar needs as far as a bigsby you have a floating bridge. Harmony used only b3's on many guitars same body size as yours. The meteor in the pic is a 1966 what a coincidence. Don't lose any sleep just get a USA made B3 and stick it on there easy peasy.;)

Well, I've made my mind up. I've ordered a B11. It seems that the B11 is almost exactly the same size as the B3, which seems to work according to many photos on line, and I like the B11's cosmetic.

I will update how I get on with it when it arrives in Blighty, they are shipping it today - hopefully it will be here before Christmas.

Cheers again for everyone's input

Rick :)

PS. now I need to think about Compton Bridge and bridge bases

My mistake on the B11 I was thinking about the stupid tension bar. The B11 will work just fine. I also like the looks of the openess of the B11 as well good choice. I had a thing for Harmony guitars 10-15 years ago owned most of them at one time or another but never a meteor. Here is great site for Harmony.
http://www.broadwaymusicco.com/HARMONY.htm

Having installed at least three Bigsbys on vintage Harmony Rockets the B-3 is the right one. B-6 are for jumbo 3" and thicker archtops 17" big bodied like my Guild X500. You also want the strings as far back from the bridge as your breaking angle is going to be very slight. I have owned three harmony H78 and Silvertone 1454 same model and they all came with B3 Bigsbys. Your Metor H70 is the same body size as the H78. here are a couple pics of an H78and your H70 meteor with a Bigsby B3. Good luck with your project.

I keep looking back at these pics. I just LOVE the look of that Silvertone. So much nicer than the Meteor sunburst. Would it be sacrilege to get someone to refinish my Meteor to look like that I wonder....

Hey guys, it's been a while, but I just happened to see this post.

Here is my '67 H70 Meteor, I put a licensed B60 on mine, and it worked out great. Pardon the crappy cell phone pic.

The only thing I ran into on mine was that the original strap pin was not a held in with a screw. It was the larger pressed in type, like you might find on an acoustic guitar.

I pulled the original pin and glued a dowel in the hole, then I was able to drill the center of dowel and use a screw on strap button.

The standard arm length worked out perfect for me.

Also if you plan on getting a Compton for it check with Wayne first, as the string spacing on the Meteor is extremely narrow, you should make sure he can make one with that spacing.

Hopefully this helps.

- Jay

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/Harmony-1.jpg

Thanks for your post Jay, nice Meteor.

Wow that looks really short for a B60 - It looks the same dimensions as the B3 pic on the Meteor a bit earlier on that rcboals posted. I've measured out the different types against my Meteor and I'd expect the spring end of a B60 to go about half an inch past the neck volume control, whereas the B3 plate is just under 6 inches long and ends up halfway up the volume pot. If I didn't know better I'd swear yours was a B30 licensed model. Maybe it's the camera angle playing tricks on the eye.

What bridge do you have on yours? It seems to be a neat adjustable one. Mine has a rosewood bridge. I did email Compton and they said the narrower string spacing would be no problem - but they said I will need to buy a new bridge base as the posts on my original are way too close together.

My strap pin does have a screw so hopefully I won't have too much bother fitting my B11 when it arrives in a week or three. I think a B60 would have worked fine but I prefer the more open look of the B11.

Cheers for your input,
Rick

PS.
I just tried out my Meteor (and my friends thin hollow bodied Gretsch) thru my new amp, a 1981 Award Sessionette 75, and they both sounded wonderful through it - very similar to each other in fact. The amp has got a lovely fender twin sounding clean channel. Can't wait for my Bigsby to arrive

You may be right, I picked up the Bigsby in a trade and had always assumed it was a B60, It may in fact be a B30. I just measured from the pivot to the end of the spring mount and got 6.5 inches, that seems to be more in line with the B30 measurements (tough to get an accurate overall measurement without having it laid out flat).

My thinking when I installed it, was that the string mount bar on the Bigsby, fell exactly where the string mount bar on the original trapeze tailpiece was. I was concerned about keeping a good break angle over the bridge.

I think if the string mount bar was an inch closer to the bridge (like the longer model) there would be less downward pressure on the bridge, and I would end up having to shim the neck, and raise the bridge way up.

As far as the bridge goes, I'm pretty sure it is the stock Hagstrom bridge that Harmony used when they were in the mood. Harmony was really inconsistent with using whatever parts they happened to have on hand (even worse than Gretsch used to be). I've seen a wooden bridge, and the Hagstrom used on identical models from the same year. Here is a good close up I found of a bridge like I have.

http://www.broadwaymusicco.com/har683.jpg

Good luck on your installation, a Meteor just "needs" a Bigsby, IMHO. :)

- Jay