So, after getting som info on baritone guitars, I have narrowed it down to the g5265, the PRS, forgot the name, its about 620, and yes, dare i say, danelectro wild thing. I am looking for some feedback from those of you that play them. I want the b to b tuning, not e to e. I will use it mostly for blues, even some slide, through my baseman. So, if you have tried one of these, let me know your thoughts. I choose these per price, i can't go above them, and i am most likely looking for used versions of them as well. new these go from 300 to 620. Leaning towards the gretsch, can't pass up a bigsby.

Have seen fenders, like teles and strats, and the one that is being built for one of our forum members, a Jaguar i believe, but can't afford those. nor can i do serious mods myself, only silly ones. . i also have no more guitars that i can mod. sold them or traded them off to get what i got now. So, I have a bass left over, and i am getting rid of that to fund this venture.

WWWWEEEEE!

PS

Don't tell the wife!

I've got the PRS and a Schecter Hellraiser C-1 Bari's. The PRS has a chunkier neck and uses heaver strings. The top is flat, very light guitar. I put an EMG 60 in the neck and an 85 in the bridge and Sperzel locking tuners. The guitar was awesome stock, but I like to tweak things. The Schecter has a neck more like a '59 Les Paul, somewhat slimmer than the PRS. The top is arched which I really like and comes in Quilt maple. It comes with EMG's already that are coil tapable. Very nice single coil clean tones, then kick in the humbucker mode for some fatter tones. Both are excellent in build quality. Fretwork is spot on. Mine are tuned stock in B-B.

Maybe look at one of these, the DeArmond Bajo Jet, based on the old Guild S-200 Thunderbird design. They come up secondhand from time to time. And you get three DeArmond single coil pickups — OK, they're 2k ceramics, but still sound real twangy.

www.guitargeek.com/dearmond-bajo-jet-baritone/

I've got the PRS and a Schecter Hellraiser C-1 Bari's. The PRS has a chunkier neck and uses heaver strings. The top is flat, very light guitar. I put an EMG 60 in the neck and an 85 in the bridge and Sperzel locking tuners. The guitar was awesome stock, but I like to tweak things. The Schecter has a neck more like a '59 Les Paul, somewhat slimmer than the PRS. The top is arched which I really like and comes in Quilt maple. It comes with EMG's already that are coil tapable. Very nice single coil clean tones, then kick in the humbucker mode for some fatter tones. Both are excellent in build quality. Fretwork is spot on. Mine are tuned stock in B-B.


What type of music do you play? The sound samples i have heard from them, on you tube, seem to point in a metalish way. I am looking to play blues, and some slide.

Would you say the prs neck is more like a bass neck, wide as well?

Thanks for the info!

Maybe look at one of these, the DeArmond Bajo Jet, based on the old Guild S-200 Thunderbird design. They come up secondhand from time to time. And you get three DeArmond single coil pickups — OK, they're 2k ceramics, but still sound real twangy.

www.guitargeek.com/dearmond-bajo-jet-baritone/

Thanks! I will search them out as well. A lot of my decision, unfortunately, has to do with price. In this case, less is more.

Have you played them?

"Have you played them?"

Got one! I did a trade-in about eight years ago — and I'm ashamed to say that at first I just thought of it as an easy way to get hold of some Dearmond pickups. But I sort of grew attached to it and left it unmolested.

It obviously has a long scale, making some chord shapes hard work (or impossible if, like me, you don't have very long fingers) although that must apply to most baritones. But the neck itself is very playable and the action is low right up the fingerboard. I have it strung B to B using Danelectro baritone strings — which are just long enough to reach the G and D tuners.

It took a while to understand how the twin three-way toggle switches controlled three pickups. It would seem that one toggle works like a conventional three-way on the neck and bridge pickups, while the other one switches the middle pickup in or out — possibly!

The only trouble is it never gets played. I'm waiting for the band I'm in to get Galveston on the set list.

Thanks! I am looking into them, checking flea bay and CL

What type of music do you play? The sound samples i have heard from them, on you tube, seem to point in a metalish way. I am looking to play blues, and some slide.

Would you say the prs neck is more like a bass neck, wide as well?

Thanks for the info!

Blues, folk rock, surf and jazz. Although, I can get a cool modern metal sound going with my Marshall cranked up.

The neck would be more like a Fender Jazz Bass, but it's very much a guitar neck. Almost identical to my '59 Les Paul's.

Get a Bass VI and you'll never go back. I'll sell you mine for $8,000. :) Actually, the most satisfactory baritone I ever owned was a Jaguar Baritone Custom. The tension on the low E was a bit low but overall it was a great baritone guitar. Were I to ever build a baritone it would be a Bass VI style neck, body and scale-length, but I'd use a stop-bar tailpiece like the Jag' bari'.

Get a Bass VI and you'll never go back. I'll sell you mine for $8,000. :) Actually, the most satisfactory baritone I ever owned was a Jaguar Baritone Custom. The tension on the low E was a bit low but overall it was a great baritone guitar. Were I to ever build a baritone it would be a Bass VI style neck, body and scale-length, but I'd use a stop-bar tailpiece like the Jag' bari'.

As usual, you hit the spot. Let me see if I got $8000,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Nope, don't got it. I have read about the fender vI, and the more i read, the harder it gets. I wanted to get a bari and play it, cause i know it has a sound that is calling me. I know i don't have a lot of cash, but these darn forums, always give me the info i crave, and set me in other directions. I thought i just read a forum from 2009, in it it said you were having one built from fender? or am i mistaken?

Have now made a pool of the gretsch g5265, danelectro wild thing, and eastwood side jack. every review has pros and cons of each, but almost every time, people say, "its a great guitar, all i had to do was change the pickup, change the bridge, change the paint, change the moisture level of the cats letterbox, and it sounded great. " Wish i had the cash to just go top end, but thats not reality. Just want to play some low down blues, some slide, and maybe even some Dead basset stuff while playing chords as well. Too much to ask?

I have heard horror stories about the dan's, as in you get what you pay for. Is this true? I am willing to settle for a less expensive guitar, if it plays well, and doesn't break in two weeks.

No luck finding the Dearmond Bajo, flea bay or elsewhere.

Sorry, just missed selling you my Eastwood Sidejack Baritone Deluxe. I sold it three weeks ago. Hated to do it but wasnt using it and wanted something else.

Can say that it was a great guitar. A little heavy but solid. Great twang from the P90s and whammy (Burns) too. Newer version has Jaguar trem.

Tuned B to B but have read that it can handle Bass VI strings and E to E. nice guitar for low $. Great metallic blue finish and came set up nicely. Get case from them as it doesn't fit standard cases and their case is good and only $99

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Sorry, just missed selling you my Eastwood Sidejack Baritone Deluxe. I sold it three weeks ago. Hated to do it but wasnt using it and wanted something else.

Can say that it was a great guitar. A little heavy but solid. Great twang from the P90s and whammy (Burns) too. Newer version has Jaguar trem.

Tuned B to B but have read that it can handle Bass VI strings and E to E. nice guitar for low $. Great metallic blue finish and came set up nicely. Get case from them as it doesn't fit standard cases and their case is good and only $99

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thanks, your the first to chime in on it. I like the blue. How was it as far as bass sounds, could you mimic a bass if you put it through a bass amp? I am considering putting it through my 59 baseman reissue, then chaining it to my actual bass amp, to get both ends of the spectrum, and use it as a bass and chordy rhythm simultaneously. any thoughts?

Have someone that might want to trade my ibanez sr480 bass for his fender squire subsonic. Anyone familiar with that one? Very little info on line about it. Looks like the few that did have it, used it for "shredding" or melodic metal music. The squire name makes me hesitant, as i have seen to many that are poorly built.

I think i need to save up and just get the one i really want, and not jump at the first offer i get.

I think i need to save up and just get the one i really want, and not jump at the first offer i get.

I think that's a good call; you want the Gretsch, get the Gretsch ;)

Might be an eastwood, like clint! Let me see what i can sell ogg, i already sold a kidney to get the hotrod, a few pints of blood for the bassman reissue, the kids hamsters were sold to science{told them the hamster fairy recruited them for their army} to get the Brain, all i got left is a few magic pieces of corn feed, it makes reindeer fly. {You need to be old to figure out where that came from}, Got a banjo, but i know as soon as i sell that, i will need a banjo to record some song.

I will keep y'all posted, and thanks for the input.

I think that's a good call; you want the Gretsch, get the Gretsch ;)
How is the guitar building going?

How is the guitar building going?

MOP block inlays are being cut & shaped as we speak, and the first coats of red should be on tomorrow or the day after :D

Wow, Good for you. Its got to be spectacular! Tremendous!

If I had the cash I would break down and get a Jerry Jones but alas hey shut down his Nashville factory.

I looked into those. My luck, I start looking at Baritones, and he goes away. Aren't the Danelectro longhorns a take on his bari?

Here's my current Baritone

Just finished this new neck and slapped it on. Thing is the best resonator I've ever owned / played. Low and behold a pic and a clip.

Here's the clip, will download an mp3. Rough recording on a crap recorder. Redoing the recording with the band.
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D168806_8768467_613206

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/knuckleslammer/Neck/b.jpg

Nice playing James! Really enjoyed that.

Thanks man

Very nice. Its refreshing to hear. Most of the time i go look for obaritone sound clips, theres some guy/gal playing this heavy hard strum pattern, that just drives me insane. You cant hear the guitar from all the effects. Allthough the recording was low, it hit the spot. I looked into putting a different neck on a cheap squire i got for free, but after buying a neck, and having to fiddle with it, it was cheaper to get a whole guitar, so I am.

Well it already was a baritone. You can't just throw a baritone neck on any national resonator. The sound well has to be moved back a tad. I got the guitar on Loan from the company to test out, I ended up buying it, loving it and had them send me an unfinished neck. It was a horrorshow of a project but I did it.

Very nice work James, it looks & sounds fantastic! :D

Nice playing James!

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Sorry - a little late to this party, but for anyone else just checking in I would also like to recommend the Eastwood Sidejack. I bought the DLX model (w/whammy) a while back to use for the "tick-tock" bass parts in a Patsy Cline tribute show.

I originally wanted a Dano for the cool factor but our guitar player talked me into the Eastwood, based on build quality, and I'm glad he did. The set neck and the tiered top speak to the craftsmanship in these guitars. The P-90s are fabulous. With a B - B tuning these things really twang and growl. That low B just really hits you in the gut in a good way. Gonna use it for some surfy/TexMexy compositions I'm working on. This is really a fine quality instrument (I did change the control knobs) at a great price. I like the Eastwood P90s so much that I'm thinking about getting the regular Sidejack guitar, as well.

I have heard horror stories about the dan's, as in you get what you pay for. Is this true? I am willing to settle for a less expensive guitar, if it plays well, and doesn't break in two weeks.

What sort of horror stories have you heard about the Danos? I have 2 Dani Baritones. They work and play great. I also have a vintage Bass VI, but nothing sounds like the Dano. It is the classic baritone/tic-tac/6SB sound. The low price point is an added feature, but even historically Danos have never been high priced guitars.

What sort of horror stories have you heard about the Danos? I have 2 Dani Baritones. They work and play great. I also have a vintage Bass VI, but nothing sounds like the Dano. It is the classic baritone/tic-tac/6SB sound. The low price point is an added feature, but even historically Danos have never been high priced guitars.

I have heard you get what you pay for. I have seen online sights where they show you how to put the tape back on the guitar. Frets that are uneven, some higher, some lower, tuners that don't hold tune. On a similar note, heard the
same about the sidejack. I am guessing its all up to the individual player. I can tell you that since i started this thread over a month ago, none of the local store, or even few further away have gotten any. Nor has there been any within a reasonable driving distance on CL. SO, until i can actually play one, i am out of luck.

Thrilled this thread is still going. I have seen the adds for the fender tele baritone, but no one on line has pics yet or info on it. Anyone here know anything about them, they are 499, and come in copper to silver, blacktops. MIM i believe.

Leaning towards the gretsch, can't pass up a bigsby.

I have a G5265 (in B tuning.) The bridge bushings were loose, which was just my incredibly bad luck, not a common problem as far as I know. The fretwork is pretty good, no buzzes or flat frets.

The Bigsby works very well, stays in tune most of the time. You *may* need to slightly widen the nut grooves, depending on your string gauges.

The stock minibuckers were a bit muddy for my taste on the low B.

All in all, this is a good guitar but somewhat overpriced, at least in Europe.

Thanks The fourth floor!

Hey freddyfingers -

My wife (god love her) bought me the 5265 for xmas. If I had read all that James had gone through, I probably wouldn't have put it on my list. However, I hadn't, so I went with it sight unseen. It arrived already tuned (ish) B to B, and playing it immediately, I realized some now common problems.

1. The neck pickup is fixed in a low, "rhythm only" position.
2. The bridge rocks in the body with trem activation.
3. The tremolo has no "zero" point where the strings return in tune.
4. A little bit of expected buzz.

So the first chance I got, I took it to the basement for an overhaul, which I expected to do regardless of glaring problems. Here's what I did:

1. I bought springs and longer pickup screws from the hardware store and reloaded the neck pickup. Now I can back it out until it touches the strings. This resulted in a rich, throaty, surf/rockabilly growl, and a cool, bluesy blend position.

2. I immediately decided that the knife bridge was improperly spec'd for the Bigsby, stopped using it to save the body, and ordered a $30 roller bridge which slipped right over the existing pins. It works perfectly and looks stock.

3. This was the big one for me since I won't use the tremolo if it won't return to tune. I pulled off the Bigsby so I could grind down the arm stop tab (I prefer it to swing over the strings for "multi-tasking"), and discovered significant binding in its rotation. A manufacturing flaw was forcing the arm to compress the journals(?), pinching the whole thing together. I removed the arm-side c-clip and replaced it with a thin, plastic washer I cut out of a yogurt lid to reduce any remaining friction. The c-clip on that side is redundant anyway since the arm rides so close. This changed everything! Now it floats like butter (does butter float?) and snaps back to zero every time!

4. During the overhaul, I foil-taped all cavities (but not the jack hole!) and ground them to each other. It's completely silent.

Before its overhaul, I was considering building my own baritone since the range is SO fun to play, but now that everything works so well, I couldn't imaging losing this guitar! For $500+, I totally recommend it if you're okay doing a little fun work on it. Just keep your headstock away from the cats.

Thanks Johnny. Welcome to the forum! Yopu have a lot more motor skills than I do. Iwouldnt attempt any of those, other than the bridge replacement. I don't understand what you mean by tremelo doesn't go back to zero, does that mean when you use the bigsby, it doesn't fall back into neutral, so to speak? Or were your referring to the arm of the bigsby. Either way, thanks for the thumbs up.

Thanks Freddy!
Yes. By "zero" I meant neutral. Before the fix, I was noticing that if I dropped the tremolo down, then let it slowly back up, the strings were all suddenly tuned flat. I would have to either manually lift it a bit to pitch them up, or let the arm snap back up on its own. Now, with everything loosey-goosey, it works like a champ!

I don't think you need to do all these fixes, but if you end up re-stringing it to do the bridge, take a look at doing the spring/screws in the neck pickup. It's actually really easy with the strings off and makes a HUGE difference in your sound.

If you get a chance, post a pic.

Freddy, since it's all back together and so perfectly set-up, I don't expect I'll have any pics any time soon, but if you pick one up, drop me a line and I'll happilly draw up some sketches for you.

what about the agile baritone?? my boy was looking at those and I was snubbin my nose at their offshore origins but it could be stripped down to the neck and body wood then raise from the dead a solid 'MErikuhn!!

For you maybe, for me, a sawed sanded piece of trash after i get done with it. I have heard raves and severe warnings about most of the 399 499 level bari's. The only one I might ever get to try out is the fender, assuming GC and SA carry them.

3. This was the big one for me since I won't use the tremolo if it won't return to tune. I pulled off the Bigsby so I could grind down the arm stop tab (I prefer it to swing over the strings for "multi-tasking"), and discovered significant binding in its rotation. A manufacturing flaw was forcing the arm to compress the journals(?), pinching the whole thing together. I removed the arm-side c-clip and replaced it with a thin, plastic washer I cut out of a yogurt lid to reduce any remaining friction. The c-clip on that side is redundant anyway since the arm rides so close. This changed everything! Now it floats like butter (does butter float?) and snaps back to zero every time!

What was the manufacturing flaw? Was the c-clip too thick? And did you mean the c-clip at the point where the arm attaches to the rest of the unit? After widening and polishing the nut grooves I haven't had any tune problems with the Bigsby, even using a normal Tune-o-Matic bridge.

Would you say the roller bridge changed the tone/sustain of the guitar?

Also, besides adding a spring to the pickup screw, another convenient way to get some adjustment room for the pickup would be cutting a piece the exact size of the pickup cover edges from, say, an old mousepad (or any other similar material) and sticking that under the pickup. This has the benefit of ensuring that the pickup doesn't move/rattle (which may happen when just adding a spring for height adjustment, especially as the minibuckers only have one screw on either side, in the middle).

Have you tried adjusting the height of the individual pole pieces? When I was using the original minibuckers, I found that a certain adjustment clarified the sound a little.

NIce song James!

OK, so I just came across the thread James posted about the loose bridge bushings on the 5265... Apparently it *is* a common problem, so I wouldn't recommend buying this guitar without first getting a chance to try the exact one you're buying.

OK, so I just came across the thread James posted about the loose bridge bushings on the 5265... Apparently it *is* a common problem, so I wouldn't recommend buying this guitar without first getting a chance to try the exact one you're buying.

FWIW, the bushings were not loose at all on my 5265 and I did not have the massive problems encountered or described elsewhere on the forum. The 5265 is definitely *not* a top of the line Gretsch, nor is its price (also compared e.g. to the very obviously much better Bass VI). But they can be made to be quite playable as E tuned six string basses. I did have to up the low E from the stock 95 gauge to 100 to keep it from being too floppy. The scale length is just shy of 30" with 29.75".

If you are looking for a A/B/C tuned baritone, there are probably much better, lighter and shorter scale options for the price out there.

I agree, the TOM bridge with the B5 on this guitar is not the best mix (break angle is way too steep and short - this causes the strings to bind on the frame of the TOM behind the saddles) I just popped on an old RBB (no edge to bind on), that helped a lot, I also found jamesfarrell's mod intriguing, raising the B5, like the Bigsby on a Billy Zoom Jet.

I have a cat, it has not devoured the solid maple headstock yet.

http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=986&pictureid=7271

If you are looking for a A/B/C tuned baritone, there are probably much better, lighter and shorter scale options for the price out there.

This is probably true.

I thought that even though I'm tuning to either B or dropped A, I still wanted the scale length to be longer than the usual 27" or 28", hoping it would have a positive effect on the tone and make it possible to get proper tension without having to use something like a .68 for the B string. In retrospect, 28" would've been fine.

I've never tried up tuning the 5265 to A/B with different strings :) .. so I can't say, got it to be a bass not baritone guitar.

I would however strongly urge anyone who gets a new 5265 with loose bridge bushings to return it.. this is the surest way to get the QC to be a bit more observant, should it really be a pronounced problem.

Yours is probably out of guarantee now? The wood used for the body is a *very* soft Asian mahogany alternative, you might be able to cure it by removing the bushings adding some wood glue to harden the wood which absorbs it and fill any loose space. Reinsert the bushings while the glue is still wet.

I agree they are not top of the line, but don't find them (assuming they are not flawed with issues which should be covered by the guarantee to start with) as troublesome as has sometimes been described. They certainly DO have a few stock issues, which at least for E-E tuning are not too hard to fix:

1) Heavier 100 gauge string for the low E
2) Fix the dodgey bridge ground wire, so it cannot loose contact to the bridge post (e.g. by soldering a wire mesh shield to the ground wire, and filling the hole under the post with that).
3) Either use a bar bridge or jamesfarrell's mod, raise/shim the Bigsby higher with washers etc, so the strings do not bind on the bridge frame.

Nice to have mods:
1) Better pots (as often typical for guitars of this price range, replace the mini pots with normal size quality pots)
2) Pickups if you feel the need, lots of options, plenty of Ric/DeArmond style GFS PUs which would fit, DeArmond short pole 2000s, probably TV T'Armonds, Rickenbacker Toasters or HighGains should fit with little modification needed (though the prices of the latter are a bit prohibitive for a 5265).
3) Add a concentric Master Volume/Tone pot and two PU volumes .. I at least find that much more useful than the stock master volume and tone.

Re 27-28 scale... I'm collecting parts for a A/B partscaster and have a Rockinger 27.72" neck for it. The Wormoth is just shy of 29" I believe. I'll let you know when it's playable (still needs routing and lacquering in the summer months, so don't hold your breath ;) ).

cu!
Henry

I would however strongly urge anyone who gets a new 5265 with loose bridge bushings to return it.. this is the surest way to get the QC to be a bit more observant, should it really be a pronounced problem.

Yours is probably out of guarantee now? The wood used for the body is a *very* soft Asian mahogany alternative, you might be able to cure it by removing the bushings adding some wood glue to harden the wood which absorbs it and fill any loose space. Reinsert the bushings while the glue is still wet.

Yeah, or at least let them know that there is an issue! I thought about returning it after I contacted the store I bought it from and FMIC, but then didn't think it was worth it. It would take so long and there was no guarantee that the replacement would be any better, and could actually be worse in other ways, like having bad fretwork etc. As I've said before, the frets on this guitar are pretty damn good, no buzzing and very well rounded.

Yep, the wood is amazingly soft! The fix you described is exactly how it was done by a local luthier.

What was the manufacturing flaw? Was the c-clip too thick? And did you mean the c-clip at the point where the arm attaches to the rest of the unit? After widening and polishing the nut grooves I haven't had any tune problems with the Bigsby, even using a normal Tune-o-Matic bridge.

Would you say the roller bridge changed the tone/sustain of the guitar?

Also, besides adding a spring to the pickup screw, another convenient way to get some adjustment room for the pickup would be cutting a piece the exact size of the pickup cover edges from, say, an old mousepad (or any other similar material) and sticking that under the pickup. This has the benefit of ensuring that the pickup doesn't move/rattle (which may happen when just adding a spring for height adjustment, especially as the minibuckers only have one screw on either side, in the middle).

Have you tried adjusting the height of the individual pole pieces? When I was using the original minibuckers, I found that a certain adjustment clarified the sound a little.

Yeah, it's the c-clip at the arm. On mine, it appears that the two bearing journals are a tiny bit further apart than they should be, making it difficult to get both c-clips to drop into the shaft slots. Because of this, when I took it apart, I noticed that the arm side c-clip was actually only partially inserted and backwards (its sharp-edge side inward). Probably and assembly line "fix". But the real problem is harder to describe: as I reinstalled the arm, tightening the hex bolt all the way brought the arm inward against the c-clip, and against the bearing, so when the arm was fully tightened, the whole assembly was compressing the two journals making the trem action really sticky. Now without that c-clip, the arm alone keeps that side in place. I added the plastic washer to reduce friction. Does all that make sense?

Unfortunately, I can't say whether the tone/sustain has changed, since I hadn't played it enough before the overhaul, during which, I also swapped the stock strings out for 13-62's.

That's funny that you mentioned the mouse pad idea. I spring-loaded that pickup before the overhaul, and it did just that - wobbled on its axis! When I re-did it later I added a wad of foam under the whole thing, which helps float the sides a little better.

Y'know, I read somewhere to avoid adjusting the pickup poles, but I don't remember where, and I don't remember why, so I'm thinking about tweaking them a bit to customize the sound, now that everything's all dialed in.

I can't believe you've had no trouble with the Tune-o-Matic! You don't get any bridge pivoting with trem use?

Here’s the $19 roller bridge that cured my Jet wobble:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHROME-VINTAGE-STYLE-ROLLER-TUNEMATIC-GUITAR-BRIDGE-/250965015814?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3D UA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D230705510708%26ps%3D63%26clk id%3D5614104205336614777

It slips directly onto the existing pins (it comes with nice hex-key pins, but their thread is the wrong pitch) and matches the finish perfectly. Bridge rocking is eliminated and the strings clear the back edge – problem solved. The body inserts in mine were a little loose, so I shimmed them up with a few wood slivers which worked fine with the roller bridge. If the knob-side insert is loose enough to pull out, I like HHudson’s idea using some mesh in there to ensure the feeble ground wire maintains contact.

I haven’t had this guitar long enough to know how much, if any, sustain/tone was lost switching to a roller bridge, but I’m playing mostly twangy, percussive stuff on it anyway, so it suits me pretty well.

I’ve also strung it with 13-62’s, B-B, which allows for lots of bends and seems to have exaggerated the tremolo range a bit as well. The down side is that the truss rod is pretty much slack right now. Luckily, the action is just right, but I’ve got no wiggle room with that.

Does all that make sense?

Yeah, I think I get it now.

Y'know, I read somewhere to avoid adjusting the pickup poles, but I don't remember where, and I don't remember why, so I'm thinking about tweaking them a bit to customize the sound, now that everything's all dialed in.

There's the risk of the pole pieces sinking into the pickup or coming off if you adjust them too much or use too much pressure. The pole pieces on the minibuckers seemed quite solidly attached to the pickup and were pretty easy to adjust, but still, be careful and don't use too much force.

I don't think the pole heights are set to match the radius of the fretboard, so the middle string poles are farther away from the strings. Fixing that should even up the sound. Something to try if you feel like experimenting: set either the lower or upper row of poles farther from the strings than the other row, or like this: http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18771&stc=1&d=1326621264

I can't believe you've had no trouble with the Tune-o-Matic! You don't get any bridge pivoting with trem use?

I'm not using the stock bridge. The saddle grooves on it were way too small for the strings, so they gripped them. This made the bridge move back and forth a lot more. I switched it to an old Tune-o-matic from an Ibanez and rounded/polished the saddle grooves. I do still get slight pivoting movement when using the Bigsby, but the bridge always returns to the original position and it doesn't go out of tune.

The pivoting, however slight, isn't good for the bridge posts, though, which is why I was asking about the roller bridge. One more question: another reason I stopped using the stock bridge way the cramped string spacing, the strings were not aligned with the pickup poles and playing was uncomfortable. How is the string spacing on the roller bridge? I heard they tend to be tightly-spaced.

The body inserts in mine were a little loose, so I shimmed them up with a few wood slivers which worked fine with the roller bridge. If the knob-side insert is loose enough to pull out, I like HHudson’s idea using some mesh in there to ensure the feeble ground wire maintains contact.


Wait, what - you had the loose bridge bushings, too?!

Wait, what - you had the loose bridge bushings, too?!

Yes, I did, and I don't see how it could be avoided with their stock set-up. Just a few dozen cycles through the trem action with that evidently pourous, lightweight wood, and those inserts are sure to oval out the holes. I stopped using it as soon as I figured that out, so mine weren't too bad, but it wasn't too alarming for me since I was pretty sure I could tighten up the fit a bit and eliminate those lateral forces with the roller bridge.

I also noticed while rebuilding it that the posts thread into the inserts really loosely. It's a pretty slack thread fit, so those guys just rattle around in there without any downward pressure on them. With the roller bridge, I can still see a tiny bit of movement, but it's all in the posts, not the inserts. I'm wondering if that's what you're getting with your custom TOM...? If that's the case, you might have it as good as it's going to get. If your tuning is holding, I'd say let sleeping dogs lie.

another reason I stopped using the stock bridge way the cramped string spacing, the strings were not aligned with the pickup poles and playing was uncomfortable. How is the string spacing on the roller bridge? I heard they tend to be tightly-spaced.

Right, that's something I forgot to mention. The stock spacing was bugging me too, so I was really happy to see this roller bridge was correctly spaced for the pickup poles.

Thanks for the post-height suggestions. Electronics is kinda over my head, so I'm never sure what to do with various pickups for different sound flavors. I don't know what staggering the heights like that is supposed to sound like, so naturally, I'm eager to try it! One problem I have is that I think my amp is pretty brutally limited to standard guitar frequency ranges, so this baritone is, no doubt, not reaching its full potential. Therefore, fine-tuning output is probably not something I should rush into yet.

Yes, I did, and I don't see how it could be avoided with their stock set-up. Just a few dozen cycles through the trem action with that evidently pourous, lightweight wood, and those inserts are sure to oval out the holes. I stopped using it as soon as I figured that out, so mine weren't too bad, but it wasn't too alarming for me since I was pretty sure I could tighten up the fit a bit and eliminate those lateral forces with the roller bridge.

It's a manufacturing defect. I noticed it immediately when I got the guitar home from the music store. The holes are drilled too large to begin with; if they were as tight as they should be, the inserts would not move, so they wouldn't destroy the wood. I don't know if you saw my post about this, but I had it fixed by gluing the inserts in. Now they don't move at all anymore. I contacted Gretsch about this thing again when I heard other people are experiencing the same problem.

I also noticed while rebuilding it that the posts thread into the inserts really loosely. It's a pretty slack thread fit, so those guys just rattle around in there without any downward pressure on them. With the roller bridge, I can still see a tiny bit of movement, but it's all in the posts, not the inserts.

Yes, that's pretty much it, now that the inserts are fixed. I think that it would have been a good idea to just change the inserts and the posts to the larger ones that are used in a lot of modern LP type guitars and then get a bridge that fits those. Those posts are 6 mm instead of 4, and would definitely improve stability. Oh well, too late now.

One problem I have is that I think my amp is pretty brutally limited to standard guitar frequency ranges, so this baritone is, no doubt, not reaching its full potential. Therefore, fine-tuning output is probably not something I should rush into yet.

That's true! A bass amp might be the way to go... Haven't tried it yet with a good one.

If your amps are not attenuating the low frequencies too much, you might be able to get away with only a different cab/speaker[s].

For bass E-E tuning, mine is fine through a bass amp, however for more guitar style finger picking, it's much better through a guitar amp. Unless you get an old tube bass amp, which people also use for guitar, modern bass amps can be a bit clinical for guitar... just need to try it out, and see what you think.

The 55Hz version of the Celestion G12H is a great sounding speaker for guitar (I think at least) and offers a bit more low end then most others... only rated 30watts though, so watch hitting a single one especially in an open back cab with a like rated amp too hard with an A/B baritone.

While working on a Vibrolux amp recently, I was too lazy to go get a guitar cab to hook up for a test. Connected an 8 ohm bass box (tweeter off) with a bass 400w *non* "LF" Eminence Neodym Kappalite loaded using a Tele.... it actually sounded really good.. and according to the speaker specs it certainly shouldn't have ;)...

.. just thinking, If you are removing the bushings anyway, hooking up a ground wire *in* the bushing hole and - if possible - soldering it to the bushing would be better and more robust than the method with the mesh shielding I used. My bushings were fine and I didn't want to pull them from that wood.... I also did not use the Bigsby more than a couple of times before I swapped the TOM for the RBB.. that may have helped not to have the problem.

cu!
Henry

I think I'm going to convert a Danelectro Longhorn bass into a Bass VI very soon. The more I look a Baritones the more I'm impressed with Danelectros for that Country Rockabilly THANG I do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKa-QbnnILE

Rcboals – that is awesome! Thanks for posting that. I hope you don’t mind, I’m going to try to learn that from you! I like your Longhorn conversion idea. A baritone’s a lot of guitar for the low-end quick work already, without the extended length/bulk of the Bigsby. That Danelectro looks to be a bit more compact and nimble than the Jet.

The4thFloor – I did see that post of yours. I’m thinking I might do some more elaborate insert work next time I re-string. Maybe even consider other roller bridge options. The posts that came with this roller were the wrong thread pitch for the inserts, which was unfortunate because, unlike the stock posts, they had a hex key head at the exposed tip. I don’t care how convenient the knurled knobs appear to be, I can’t get them to budge under tension with just my fingers!

Henry - the amp I have for my other guitar has a tight fitting pair of 10” drivers (for its stereo chorus), so there’s literally no wiggle room for expansion on that one. It was an affordable Fender amp that does nearly everything and sounds better than I expected it to, so it’s a great living-room/”buddy-jam” amp. I’m thinking I’ll keep an eye out for a more bass friendly 12” single for the Jet.

Sounds great Rcboals! I love the sound of those lipstick pickups. Still toying with the idea of using the GFS clones for the bari-partscaster.

Johnny, 10" are not necessarily a bad choice for bass or baritone, a lot of bassists use them for their big punch, (I don't include myself in that group yet, I attempt to play bass the best I can ;) ). Afraid I can't offer much help with 10" bass speakers, I don't have any.

Sounds great Rcboals! I love the sound of those lipstick pickups. Still toying with the idea of using the GFS clones for the bari-partscaster.

Johnny, 10" are not necessarily a bad choice for bass or baritone, a lot of bassists use them for their big punch, (I don't include myself in that group yet, I attempt to play bass the best I can ;) ). Afraid I can't offer much help with 10" bass speakers, I don't have any.

Thanks that isn't my demo. I just picked up a Longhorn bass and have the parts on the way to convert to a 30" baritone. Link below shows how to do it. I finally found someone that already did it. I will post my results in another post when I get it together. I was looking at the specs and the Bass neck says its nut width is 1 5/8" and the Baritone is 1 11/16" other than that same number of frets etc. come on really? You think as cheap as Dano makes guitars they actually made different necks for bass and Baritone 1/16" difference? I don't think so. I'm stoked about doing this and I will have a way cool Longhorn Baritone for well under $275.00 for everything. Pic are the one the other guy converted.
http://www.agileguitarforum.com/showthread.php?tid=16095

Y'know, after I posted that, it occurred to me that I had alledgedly just watched a video of you playing the guitar you hadn't actually built yet... don't know why I assumed that was you! Anyway, let us know how it comes out. I'm particularly diggin' the seafoam!

Theres a guy near me selling a Ibanez MMM1. Its a 28 inch neck. I think it was the first Mike mush something or other model, before he went to PRS. He is asking 600, but I think thats a bit high, and I am seeing if he is interested in trading out a bass for it. Let ya"s know.

I just picked up a Longhorn bass and have the parts on the way to convert to a 30" baritone.

Raye, you have the coolest projects!
So what parts do you need for a conversion, just 2 extra tuners and a nut right?

Here's the clip, will download an mp3. Rough recording on a crap recorder. Redoing the recording with the band.
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D168806_8768467_613206

Schweet playing!..

Raye, you have the coolest projects!
So what parts do you need for a conversion, just 2 extra tuners and a nut right?

six string nut $10.00 six string bridge intonated one with saddles is $45.00
complete set of six Dano tuners is $47.00 unless you can find two that match. Set of Strings $8.00. All the information is here. http://www.agileguitarforum.com/showthread.php?tid=16095

Theres a guy near me selling a Ibanez MMM1. Its a 28 inch neck. I think it was the first Mike mush something or other model, before he went to PRS. He is asking 600, but I think thats a bit high, and I am seeing if he is interested in trading out a bass for it. Let ya"s know.

Is that MMM1 the wood-finish model? They’re beautiful! It looks like they didn’t sell them for much more than what he’s asking. Maybe since it’s pre PRS he’s asking “now rare” price…?

Johnny, 10" are not necessarily a bad choice for bass or baritone, a lot of bassists use them for their big punch.

I do like the pop that the 10" drivers have, but I'd like to hear more definition at the bottom end, particularly with the new baritone. Also, I think that with the open back amp, the room gets a lot muddier a lot sooner than with a more bass-friendly sealed box... So I guess what I'm looking for is an inexpensive mid-size amp with a clean reverb, and bell-like clarity from the guitar high E 12th fret all the way down to baritone low B. Shouldn't be hard to find, right?

just watched a video of you playing the guitar you hadn't actually built yet...

lol ditto, cool looking project though :D

I do like the pop that the 10" drivers have, but I'd like to hear more definition at the bottom end, particularly with the new baritone. Also, I think that with the open back amp, the room gets a lot muddier a lot sooner than with a more bass-friendly sealed box... So I guess what I'm looking for is an inexpensive mid-size amp with a clean reverb, and bell-like clarity from the guitar high E 12th fret all the way down to baritone low B. Shouldn't be hard to find, right?


Bass speakers, boxes and ports and the Thiel-Small parameters is a mind boggling science, and I am *not* very good at it :D The lower the frequency needed the more difficult it becomes...

A closed cab depending on the size and speaker used may not give you more bass, but it should (provided it's not too big) be more focused and tight and allow you to hit the speaker a bit harder, which for baritone I would think is a plus - they need to cut in the mix, that is much more difficult because you are treading heavily on bass and guitar territory.

If you are going for a 12" guitar speaker[s], one or two Celestion 30w 55Hz G12H[s] depending on your amps output rating(!) might be the ticket and work with a normal guitar tuning equally well. I need to build a new baffle for a 2x12 closed cab I have, and am planning on using one or two G12Hs in it. I can let you know when it's finished what I think, but I haven't bought the wood for the new baffle yet, so it may take a while.

Occasionally, used JBL D-120F 12" and D130F 15" (or possibly a D-140F, which is a 15" bass speaker, you would need to to check the high end frequency rating though) speakers pop up in the US for much more sensible prices than on this side of the pond, which might be worth considering... but often even Stateside the prices are nutty and they have been reconed.

cu!
Henry

Here's my current Baritone

Just finished this new neck and slapped it on. Thing is the best resonator I've ever owned / played. Low and behold a pic and a clip.

Here's the clip, will download an mp3. Rough recording on a crap recorder. Redoing the recording with the band.
https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D168806_8768467_613206

http://i898.photobucket.com/albums/ac187/knuckleslammer/Neck/b.jpg

Now i know my Ovation Baritone is perhaps nowhere near what your Baritone is(overall), but who knows, i like it...Ovation DS778TX.

In case anyone stumbles across this thread looking to buy a Baritone guitar
here is my 7 cents...

I bought a Gretsch g5265 thinking "whee a baritone with a bigsby..cool"
Well after playing it as a baritone for a while. Like a week, and decided that it was pretty lame so I got a set of D Addario XL 156
strings for it and have never looked back. This guitar is not a very good
baritone. I think Gretsch/Fender designed it more as a Fender Bass VI.
Those strings are made for the Bass VI and are gauged 23-84ish..

I started comparing string gauges on regular guitars that used "heavy bottom" strings
and Baritones..Well Hmm the baritone guitar is NOT that much longer
than a regular guitar. You put heavy strings on a regular guitar and
you come pretty close to a baritone. However if you compare downwards
from the baritone to the regular guitar there IS some usable low end
available on the baritone and not the regular guitar..
Now I compared the string gauges to the Gretsch 5265 and a Fender Baritone
i have. Hmmmm I use 15-70 stringset on the Fender. And a 23-84 stringset
on the Gretsch "bass".. Fair bit of overlap there. However there is a LOT
more useful low end. The Gretsch is really a 6 string bass with a bigsby on
it. IT does not make such a hot baritone guitar. I tuned mine E to E and play
it like a guitar (only lower_) at my weekly gig, and have gotten many nice comments. Of course maybe some of those chords are a bit trickier with
those strings, and bending that low E requires a bit of extra push, but hey!!
If you just GOTTA have a baritone with a tremolo on it I would suggest
Modifying a Sidejack or even the New Fender Blacktop.
The Gretsch is just TOOO darn heavy, and those pickups
are not the best. It just aint -in my opinion a very good baritone guitar.

In fact I have to say that I ended up rewiring the whole darn thing because
the humubckers hummed so bad. All the wiring was termed up on the selector switch, rather
than on the pots like Gibson does, so it was a pain in the rear. Not sure if
it was a cold solder, or the guitar tech at Gretsch in China was just having a bad day.
Also I ended up with a roller bridge because those sharp saddles just did not permit proper sting movement with the bigsby. I can not see paying $550 for one of these things, then having to put another $150 or even more (that is not counting my time - if I had this done at a guitar shop at $60 per
hour shop time it would be more like $400 in mods). I REALLY like
this guitar as a sonicly low end guitar...
Am most likely going to install the GFS minitron gretsch clone pickups
which will set me back another eighty bucks plus my time.

I currently have a 90s vintage Danelectro Baritone, a PRS SE Baritone,
a Gibson LP Baritone, a Fender Blacktop Baritone, and this jobby..

I would recommend to anyone wanting a baritone to just go get the
Fender. Nicely made, sounds good. Well I did change out the middle
pickup, and install new CTI pots and put metal Teleesque knobs on
the thing. But as a Baritone GUITAR this thing ROCKS. Better than the
Gibson by a long shot. And the Dano and PRS are not even close.
It seems that you pay either $2K for a REALLY good baritone, or like $2-600
For one that will need some extra time and cash invested in it before you will
be happy with the guitar....
welcome to the guitar players world

jim in gold bar

<<And the Dano and PRS are not even close.>>

What didn't you like about the PRS SE baritone? The PRS SE Custom has been my main gig axe for the last few years & I would want to think that a baritone version would be pretty good. Just not happening for you, though?

SF

Here is the one I did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__vatbsvy5A

Scott.

I donno exactly. The PRS is just kind of blah to me. Maybe with some different
strings. I like the way it feels playing it, and it is pretty well made, but I keep
reaching for the Fender instead..


jim in gold bar

Scott.
I donno exactly. The PRS is just kind of blah to me. Maybe with some different
strings. I like the way it feels playing it, and it is pretty well made, but I keep
reaching for the Fender instead..
jim in gold bar

And the Fender you have is the Tele Blacktop Baritone?
Same general price range as the PRS SE Baritone, but with much more flexible pickup switching. But the PRS SE Custom is about the most comfortable neck I've ever played, with exactly the right string spacing for me. Interesting dilemma to have.

SF

You should really check out "DanGuitars" $379 plus shipping. I got my '59 DC from them and I love it. here is the link:

http://danguitars.com/Baritone.html

Scott;

Yep the Fender is the Blacktop. I did have to change out the pots and
installed a Bill Lawrence L250 in the middle pickup position. And there are
a bunch of trem conversion kits out there for Telecasters that would most
likely work. But somehow installing one of those on a guitar with 'through the body'
strings, just makes me uncomfortable..sooooo.
Have been lusting after the Jaguar Baritone, but they are going for about $1K
right now...
As they say YMMV.. Everybody's hands are a bit different, and you are
right the neck on the PRS is nice to play. And maybe swapping out the
pickups would do it for me. Am glad you like the PRS...
What I REALLY would like would be a baritone semi hollowbody (not a Thinline
tho, a real semi hollow :) with a tremolo bar on it.
That Hagstrom Viking Baritone that they keep advertising with a bigsby installed would
be pretty cool, and am waiting for it to become available at a decent price.
I play in Church, and if I crank up the volume too much I get yelled at for being
too shrill and loud. However using a Baritone takes care of that problem, and everybody
thinks it is sort of cool that I am playing a "special" guitar.
The new Danelectros are also pretty interesting, and it would be fun to get my
hands on the Sidejack.
Have played the Agile LP Shaped baritone, and their
version of the Fender Bass VI.... Like I said my hands keep reaching for the Fender
Blacktop Tele Baritone...

jim in gold bar

Hey freddyfingers -

My wife (god love her) bought me the 5265 for xmas. If I had read all that James had gone through, I probably wouldn't have put it on my list. However, I hadn't, so I went with it sight unseen. It arrived already tuned (ish) B to B, and playing it immediately, I realized some now common problems.

1. The neck pickup is fixed in a low, "rhythm only" position.
2. The bridge rocks in the body with trem activation.
3. The tremolo has no "zero" point where the strings return in tune.
4. A little bit of expected buzz.

So the first chance I got, I took it to the basement for an overhaul, which I expected to do regardless of glaring problems. Here's what I did:

1. I bought springs and longer pickup screws from the hardware store and reloaded the neck pickup. Now I can back it out until it touches the strings. This resulted in a rich, throaty, surf/rockabilly growl, and a cool, bluesy blend position.

2. I immediately decided that the knife bridge was improperly spec'd for the Bigsby, stopped using it to save the body, and ordered a $30 roller bridge which slipped right over the existing pins. It works perfectly and looks stock.

3. This was the big one for me since I won't use the tremolo if it won't return to tune. I pulled off the Bigsby so I could grind down the arm stop tab (I prefer it to swing over the strings for "multi-tasking"), and discovered significant binding in its rotation. A manufacturing flaw was forcing the arm to compress the journals(?), pinching the whole thing together. I removed the arm-side c-clip and replaced it with a thin, plastic washer I cut out of a yogurt lid to reduce any remaining friction. The c-clip on that side is redundant anyway since the arm rides so close. This changed everything! Now it floats like butter (does butter float?) and snaps back to zero every time!

4. During the overhaul, I foil-taped all cavities (but not the jack hole!) and ground them to each other. It's completely silent.

Before its overhaul, I was considering building my own baritone since the range is SO fun to play, but now that everything works so well, I couldn't imaging losing this guitar! For $500+, I totally recommend it if you're okay doing a little fun work on it. Just keep your headstock away from the cats.

When I was looking into getting a baritone I really liked the look of the Gretsch but there was too much negative problems posted about them. If I had seen what you did to really improve it, I may very well have gone the Gretsch route. I love a bigsby that works right and the Gretsch baritone bigsby was not right. I love to see and read about how someone really improved a not so great playing guitar to a very satisfactory conclusion. Great job good info.