I shall try to upload pictures, but my attempts keep faiing.
Is It a Black Jet Firebird or a Duo Jet. All I have is a hand etched serial numbern 24416-S or 24416 - 5.

Is it the legendary missing link Gretsch?

A Black Jet Fire Bird? You will need to post photos :D

havent we been through this?

havent we been through this?

Yes, Danny apparently has early-onset alzheimers.. ;)

http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/vintage-gretsch-discussion/48297-1964-gretsch-jet-firebird.html

No Danny has early onset evidence of other black jet firebirds out there. A search for "gretsch firebird" on ebay yielded a picture of one just like mine.

Unfortunately geniuses like araT cannot tell me how to upload pictures to this all-knowing site. MINE KEEP FAILING

And here is the ebay pic.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Gretsch-6131-Jet-Firebird-double-cut-WOW-/220878715746?pt=Guitar&hash=item336d65bb62

Nice Duo Jet on Ebay... looks like (from the questions/answers section) the seller admits that it's probably a Duo jet. Black Gretsch Jets are "Duo Jets" and red one's are "Jet Firebirds".

Danny dont get defensive. Its just that this is the second time you've brought up said evidence from the world wide web... We simply dont believe because we dont have too, and theres NO EVIDENCE. Even the ebay picture doesn't prove anything. Another misinformed person on the internet as far as I'm concerned...

Some people go misinformed their entire lives about certain things. You have an awesome guitar regardless and shouldn't care if its a firebird or a duo-jet. At least its not some scenario where you raised some kid for 18 years only to find out it wasn't yours... in your scenario you still have a good guitar. Let it go. It is what it is. A duojet with black backs and sides and headstock and all.

Unfortunately geniuses like araT cannot tell me how to upload pictures to this all-knowing site. MINE KEEP FAILING

I talked you through uploading pictures in your other thread & you never replied, mine is the last post in there. No need to get snarky.

Either click the "manage attachments" button in the new post / reply window, or use an image hosting site like imageshack, tinypic, flickr or photobucket & copy the "forum code" link they provide after uploading the image there

If you don't want my help then read the FAQ or search the forums, there are LOTS of times I've talked people through uploading pictures & they've managed just fine.

Danny dont get defensive. Its just that this is the second time you've brought up said evidence from the world wide web... We simply dont believe because we dont have too, and theres NO EVIDENCE. Even the ebay picture doesn't prove anything. Another misinformed person on the internet as far as I'm concerned...

Some people go misinformed their entire lives about certain things. You have an awesome guitar regardless and shouldn't care if its a firebird or a duo-jet. At least its not some scenario where you raised some kid for 18 years only to find out it wasn't yours... in your scenario you still have a good guitar. Let it go. It is what it is. A duojet with black backs and sides and headstock and all.

+1 a thousand times over.

Some people go misinformed their entire lives about certain things.

Not me!:D

Looks like there has been a headstock repair-
Brush marks on the back and a crack by the nut-

And here is the ebay pic.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Gretsch-6131-Jet-Firebird-double-cut-WOW-/220878715746?pt=Guitar&hash=item336d65bb62

The owner admits that it's likely a Duo Jet in the questions. There's no label on his to prove otherwise, just another misinformed eBay seller, not proof by any stretch of the imagination!

Nice Duo Jet on Ebay... looks like (from the questions/answers section) the seller admits that it's probably a Duo jet. Black Gretsch Jets are "Duo Jets" and red one's are "Jet Firebirds".

+1 Wayne! :)

Looks like there has been a headstock repair-
Brush marks on the back and a crack by the nut-

Good eye! that's how the back of the headstock ended up painted black (though why they'd do that I'd have no idea, I'd rather keep it natural & see the crack than change the guitar so much)

The heel doesn't look too good either. that's a lot of money for a broken guitar.

Me and my black Kvetsch Jet Fire Duo Bird and its green oxidizing quadruple pick-downs with the second degree Burns Trombonalo Bar and the gold plated never gettin any head stock tuner peggys are rockn on outa here. Maybe never to return.

Adios

Here is the reason why i want one pu an3 button...

No, no.. Sorry, two pots: to much refs for my poor 31 brain...I am even about switchin' the pu for...nothing? So, that would be easier to handle and care about ? Hum...i should let my guitar down and walk with my chihuahua ( 💪) and mum hoping desperatly to catch a girl... I stop joking but i just ask a question : in the forum's name , what does "Gretsch" word mean?

Me and my black Kvetsch Jet Fire Duo Bird and its green oxidizing quadruple pick-downs with the second degree Burns Trombonalo Bar and the gold plated never gettin any head stock tuner peggys are rockn on outa here. Maybe never to return.

Adios

Or maybe you'll just be back in a few weeks to start the saga all over again :rolleyes: ;)

I was going to ask what you've got if a Jet Firebird (the red one!) has been refinished in black. But I won't.

Cool looking guitar whatever it is, wish I could afford it. The headstock pictures are strange. In one picture it certainly looks like a repair but in the other one it looks perfect, the seller says it's OK and it's just the way the picture was taken in the question section of the listing. The crack in the finish around the heel looks just that, I've got a couple of old guitars that show that sort of thing and the neck-bidy joints are fine. I've also noticed that poly finished Fenders are prone to finish cracks at the neck sockets.

It's a freaking Duo Jet.

Don't feed the Troll.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/tartanphantom/1f48fbfc-0fce-46ad-acc4-76fc6fffcf2a.jpg

I don't even like the dual cutaways on Gretsch Guitars and I gotta admit, that thing is NOICE!

I don't even like the dual cutaways on Gretsch Guitars and I gotta admit, that thing is NOICE!

Duo Jets between 1961 & 1970 are all double-cutaways :) they've done a modern reissue called the 6128(T)-1962 ...GO GET ONE! :D

Duo Jets between 1961 & 1970 are all double-cutaways :) they've done a modern reissue called the 6128(T)-1962 ...GO GET ONE! :D

Yeah I gotta second that emotion. I love mine. They are LIGHT as a feather and they have tone for days. Plus, FRET ACCESS, BABY!!!

Late to this party, as usual....

Having lived through the years of vintage Gretsch guitars --

The Duo Jet and the Jet Firebird are the SAME guitar. The difference is that the Duo Jet has a black top and stained sides and back. The Jet Firebird has a red top and black sides and back.

The best way to tell the difference is to LOOK AT the guitar. If it has a black top and stained body..... Guess what it is???!!??

Exception noted with the new Harrison tribute model.........

rockn on outa here. Maybe never to return.

Adios

Just as I was starting to bite my nails in anticipation! :mad:

I feel like I'm missing something here about sensativities or something....

The "headline" on the Ebay posting Danny referenced said:

"1965 Gretsch 6128 Duo Jet double cut WOW!!"

Where does that suggest a black Firebird.....?

I think the seller edited the listing as there are a couple of questions referencing Firebird jets vs. Duo jets.

Hold you expressions of gratitude at my triumphant though probably temporary return to this gathering of Gruvelling Gretsch Groupie Geeks, but since you asked for them. You begged for them. You pleaded and beseeched me for them, so here are some of them. You may, of course plead for more. But, for now, here they are photographic proof of the covetted, the holy grail of Gretschs the end-all of envy and, for a bonus, my weak, scrawny, girly-like fingers holding it - I give you, formerly only the stuff of legend, Yes, The FIRE KVETCH BLACK JET DUO BIRD!!!!

Would someone put spell check on this site. As you can see, my spelling suks.

Enjoy the pics while turning greener than my oxidizing pick-downs with envy.

<deleted as Danny might miss it between his picture posts>

In anticipation of your whining for more front views of the Grale of Gretschs, here are three more. No thanks or other expressions of gratitude are necessary.

Feel free to keep commentary on my photographic abilities to yourselves.

Gone for now, but never to be forgotten.

Your former hero,

Danny C

I know you're going to hate me even more than you already do - but those pictures PROVE to me that it is indeed a Duo Jet. The back is stained, not solid black, all firebirds have black-finished backs.. ALL of them.

What makes you so adamant that this is a Firebird rather than a Duo? What's your proof/evidence? The word of a confused & likely-stoned shop-guy back in the 60s? and why do you care so much?? both are identical except for the colours, and you have an exceptional, beautiful vintage Duo Jet on your hands! Without the original model-number label, nothing will ever prove that this is indeed an elusive black Firebird (even if it did ave a label saying 6131 what's to say it wasn't mislabelled at the factory??) and thus you'll never be able to sell as one, either. The good news for you is that Duo Jets are generally much more sought after than Firebirds. The guys at the other Gretsch forum will tell you the same stuff we've been been trying to tell you all along, only they won't be so gentle about it.

I really don't mean to question you, or insult you (if I have), and I can assure you we're normally quite a nice bunch of people to hang out with, we also have some of the best-informed Gretschheads on the planet hanging here.. I really hope you decide to stick around & make some friends :)

Noone told me about the Groupies here? Why?:confused:

Dear araT:

I do not hate you or anyone for that matter. Certainly no one on this site who I do not even know. Obviously, I would love to own the only black jet firebird on the planet and you are probably right that some misguided sales person told us the name. Back in the early sixties, I would have been just as delighted with the guitar had the sales person told us it was a Duo Jet. However, until the the last five years or so, when I started becoming interested in whether it had fermented into a priceless classic ending my financial woes, I had never even heard of the words "Duo Jet" and always described my guitar as a jet firebird.

I just wish it had the four digit model number on it instead of the five digit with a -5 at the end number it does have. That would end my dilema with certainty. Originally, I just wanted George Harrison's Country Gentleman but my dad would not spring for an $800 dollar guitar for a 10 year old kid. However, the one he bought me looked like George's little brother and I was and still am thrilled with it. It only cost 300 something in those days. A gift I received for recovering from a near death illness. In fact, I doubt I will ever part with it unless it someday reaches 6 figures and then only if I am starving. This is especially true since my dad died just earlier this year. My beautiful Duo Bird reminds me of him every time I look at it.

So farewell my dear araT. I assure you I bare you no ill will whatsoever. In fact, you strike me as being quite eloquent in your writings - just probably (hopefully?) incorrect in your diagnosis of my alzheimer's disease, though at times, I have suspected its early onset has indeed befallen me. It sometimes seems my curse is that my long term memory is soooooo intact. If only there were a pill to help you forget certain things.

Take Care,

Danny C

Don't do drugs, kids.

I'm glad there's no hard feelings Danny, and I really do hope you decide to come back some day & hang out with us :)

I'm sorry that it's lost it's model number label at some point (though I don't know how that could be since you're the original owner - did you ever have work done to it? maybe it fell out then? those paper labels are notorious for coming loose as the adhesive ages) but be glad it has it's 5 digit serial number, that's more vital than a model number label!

I'm also sorry to hear about your dad, my condolences for your loss (and your financial hardship), I'm glad to hear you'll never part with this gorgeous Duo Jet, it's an absolute beauty and in incredible condition for it's age! you've taken really good care of it!

As for the alzheimer's crack, I was only messing around, I'm sure you don't have alzheimer's at all ;) I meant no harm or seriousness by it so don't take it to heart!

Ack, browser trouble & double post, oh well I'll make the most of it:

Noone told me about the Groupies here? Why?:confused:

You're one of them ;) bwahahaha.. better go don your go-go-girl uniform! :D

Don't do drugs, kids.

Awww, but why dad? drugs are fun! I tried them once but I didn't inhale :p

If only there were a pill to help you forget certain things.


Like this thread for instance. Very sweet Duo Jet you have there though...

Cheers.

Don't do drugs, kids.

Thats right... wait till your an adult.

Don't do drugs, kids.

There's a time and place for everything, and it's called "college."

Dear araT:

I guess I cant stay away. Thank you for your kind words. By the by, who is this friend Fred? I too know a friendly Fred. I wonder if he is the same one. Also, where is this Jettery you hath spoken of. I wouldst gladly get me to this Jettery if I knew wherefrom it cometh or wherith it is.

On another note (pun intended), as to postings, I have many pictures of my georgous Jet Duo Bird Fire. They always fail when I try to upload them. The pictures I posted were taken with my webcam. The pics taken with my friend's very nice digital camera are much better than the the ones I posted. Please tell me where you posted instructions on uploading pictures to this site.

There's a time and place for everything, and it's called "college."

WAIT! they told me those files were sealed!?!?

Dear araT:

I guess I cant stay away. Thank you for your kind words. By the by, who is this friend Fred? I too know a friendly Fred. I wonder if he is the same one. Also, where is this Jettery you hath spoken of. I wouldst gladly get me to this Jettery if I knew wherefrom it cometh or wherith it is.

On another note (pun intended), as to postings, I have many pictures of my georgous Jet Duo Bird Fire. They always fail when I try to upload them. The pictures I posted were taken with my webcam. The pics taken with my friend's very nice digital camera are much better than the the ones I posted. Please tell me where you posted instructions on uploading pictures to this site.

I'm GLAD you can't stay away, we can never have too many Jetaholics here!! Jet owners represent!! :D

The "Friend of Fred" usertitle is done by the forum when you reach a certain (high) postcount - the Fred it refers to is the one & only Fred Gretsch, the owner of the company!

The "Jettery" in my signature, it's a mythical place where one goes to buy Jets - you have already been to a Jettery as you own a Jet! :D

As for uploading pictures:
Upload the image to tinypic (http://tinypic.com/) & copy the code from the box called "IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards" and just paste that directly into a message, no need to use the picture button in a new post or anything, they've done all the work for you!

I'm looking forward to seeing more pics of your gorgeous Jet!

There is no room in this town for two lawyers!

To araT and No-name:

Dear ara and No:

First to Dr. No-name; No, tell me please, what is the "zero fret" of which you speak?

Ara, my dear, a few questions if you would be so kind;

You mentioned that my guitar has a "stained" back as opposed to a solid black back. All I can tell you is that the back and sides of the guitar are brown and you can see the grain of the wood. It is really quite lovely in my opinion. Are you saying that all jet firebirds have backs and sides that are basically painted black (I feel a song coming on me - Thank you Mick) like the top of my guitar, whatever its name is?

Also, I have been relentless in my search for a nearby Jettery. The best I have come up with are three music stores with one new Duo Jet Single cuttaway in each. Country Gentlemans, both old and new seem to abound however. I always hoped that my father's veto of my Country Gentleman request would turn out to be wise on his part, in that the Jets, both Duo and Firebirds seem to be a rarity in the stores I've scrutinized. In other words, both new and vintage Jets seem much lesser in number than the Country Gentlemen that seem to be everywhere. Look, there goes one now boogalooing down my hall and out the door. At any rate, how do I search for these Jetteries - Google?

As to the five digit serial number that you consider "vital," the only information it has yielded to me is that my guitar was made in either 1964 or 1965. Yes, I have had the guitar set-up two or three times. The paper evidence may well have fallen out during one of the setups. Attempts have also been made to remove the green oxidation on the gold plated pick-ups and control knobs. The trick that works best on the knobs is soaking them for 24 hours in a glass of Coca Cola. DO NOT drink the coke after the soak. Even before the soak, immagine what that stuff must be doing to the lining of the stomach. But I digress. So anyway, the back access panels have been openned several times by luthiers and by me - a cluelessier. I'm told the four digit model number in on a postage stamp sized piece of paper either loose in there or glued to something inside. I see nothing.

Has it been you experience that the white binding on all Jets of the early to mid sixties are crumbleing off. I was told it was best to leave it alone. Attempted binding restoration would be a mistake. I was just wondering if you knew of any substance like a varnish that could be applied to stop the progression of the crumbleing binding where it is.

Danny,
Still in Dilema and Possibly Dementia

I can answer all of these :)

Hahaha, thanks, I think I'm going to spend the rest of the day running around singing "I see a red Jet and I want to paint it black" LMAO!

The zero fret is the fret right in front of the nut, it's called a zero fret because there's no fretting space behind it, it's right against the nut - the benefit of these is that all notes sound fretted (normally "open" string notes sound a little different to fretted notes) and also if the nut slots get too deep the zero fret will stop open notes from buzzing as it keeps the strings at the right height. These were pretty common on 60s Gretsches, and a lot of other guitar brands from the time...

The brown seethrough paint on the back of your body is what we call a stain, as you can see through it to the wood grain - all proper Firebird Jets have solid black backs & sides, here's a pic:

http://www.pussyfever.de/site/images/Gitarren/Gretsch%20Jet%20Firebird%201963/01310003h600.jpg

The best Jettery I know of is eBay, also Joel @ Shanghai (http://www.shanghai-guitars.com/) and Rocky @ Streetsounds (http://www.streetsoundsnyc.com/) are both jetaholics and will cut you a great deal on one if you're looking to get another! They always have lots of tasty Jet stock! If you're just looking to go find one to try out, the 3 stores you found seem to be your best bet - Guitar Centre often carries a couple of Jets, too.

The 5 digit serial number is vital, more vital than the model label, because it proves the guitar is an authentic Gretsch and it proves when it was made, this is far more valuable in the long run than the model label as the model can still be identified pretty easily without the model label..

It's likely the paper model label fell out on one of the occasions you had the guitar open, sadly it's quite common as the adhesive they used didn't age well.. it's a pity, but not a deal breaker :) We know by now that it's very likely it said "6128T"

The binding Gretsch used in the 60s is notorious for rotting - unfortunately as far as I know there's not a lot you can do apart from replacing it, you could talk to Wayne Gretschzky (http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/members/wayne+gretschzky.html) (our local vintage guru) & see if he recommends putting finish on it to preserve it..

As for cleaning up your pickups, I think you're dead on with soaking the covers in Coca Cola overnight, you don't want to use anything abrasive as it will wear down the gold plating pretty fast.. Otherwise just accept it as part of it's vintage charm!

Hope this has helped, feel free to hit me with as many more questions as you can think up, there's nothing I like more than talking Jets! :D

To araT and No-name:

Dear ara and No:

First to Dr. No-name; No, tell me please, what is the "zero fret" of which you speak?



You lost me, but that's not hard to do.

What is this?
No more go go girls, drugs and grupies?
I'm out.

What is this?
No more go go girls, drugs and grupies?
I'm out.

I dunno who said no more drugs... but they're not very well informed.....

If this were Nillson's joint, and he was still alive, you could ask for a scotch, a sandwich and some heroin @ the bar.

Thats right... wait till your an adult.

Zactly. :D

YOU'VE BEEN SUBJECTED TO THE REST NOW YOU MAY BEHOLD THE BEST
http://i44.tinypic.com/8xoj1v.jpg
Oops, right sentiment, wrong photo but an original none the less.

Now the best
http://i43.tinypic.com/whk3k7.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/4uw6lv.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2hrn3p5.jpg
]

Damn danny... thats dark... all of the above lol

Zactly. :D

I hurd you. lol. Man if I ever become a parent, in order to avoid being a hypocrite I gotta remember that line.

What's the strings break angle?:D

There's a time and place for everything, and it's called "college."

which is right now^^
for me at least

Very very nice Danny! what a gorgeous vintage beast! :D

which is right now^^
for me at least
Actually, in the interests of accuracy, truth, juctice, liberty, freedom, judicial economy, stupidity and absolute political incorrectness, I drew that in Law School.

Thank you so much for the info, araT. I wish I lived closer to you so you could work on all four of my guitars two of which could definitely use a setup. I did have two accoustics Pleked awhile back. I'm told that machine comes from Germany. I think it did a great job. But, if you are familiar with it, do you think it worth the US$240 that the procedure costs here? Also, considering that the binder disintegration and some green oxidation on the gold plated components are really the only defects, any idea as to its value - though I really would have to be starving to part with Dad's beautiful gift. Obviously, he will not be giving me any more any time soon. Getting there though. It still plays and sounds as good as new - maybe even better with age. I usually prefer the action, sound and general feel of well preserved old vintage guitars of all ilk.

I did manage to afford a few setups for it but have never had it or myself Pleked. By the way, "Pleked" is not a euphemism for any other verb any of you will no doubt imply. And speaking of age, did that serial number (24416-5 or 24416-S) tell you the specific year of manufacture. I have always figured it was 1964 or 1965 but I bow humbly to your obvious expertise.

For all your kind assistance, araT, I bestow upon you alone, these next four Duobird photos including one more showing another coveted glimpse of my weak, scrawny, girly-esque digits. More completely irrelevant drawings are also available. To the rest of you, overt your eyes. No peaking.This uploading is really adicting. Either that or I am starved for entertainment as well. Then again, I am quite easily amused.

Enjoy and many thanks again, araT. And much success in your finest of professions - aid and comfort to aged guitars. Makes me wish I was one. Well, I am half of that description.

Danny

http://i42.tinypic.com/fmlxrk.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/r1eq80.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/n4jegz.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/n6xhms.jpg

Nice Duo Jet you have there, Danny.

Heavens! Oh my but this thread is certainly exhausting. Nevertheless, that guitar is fine as fine.

Danny -- all your photos show that you have a Duo Jet. As long as you like it, that's great. Be happy with it. If you want it to be a Jet Firebird, paint the top red and the sides and back black.

Either way -- the double cutaway Jets (Duo or Firebird) with the Burns tremolo have never been considered as "Holy Grail" or "Golden Fleece" examples. They are more like curiosities that occurred during the demise of the original Gretch company prior to the takeover by Baldwin.

The classic Jets were manufactured during the mid and late 1950's.

Don't rain on my parade! No Jet Duo Bird picture for you. Just this heart felt holiday greeting.
http://i44.tinypic.com/23sf9co.jpg

Guys, we've established it's a Duo Jet by now, stop laying into Danny. Read the whole thread before you start your nagging & whining :p


Thank you so much for the info, araT. I wish I lived closer to you so you could work on all four of my guitars two of which could definitely use a setup. I did have two accoustics Pleked awhile back. I'm told that machine comes from Germany. I think it did a great job. But, if you are familiar with it, do you think it worth the US$240 that the procedure costs here? Also, considering that the binder disintegration and some green oxidation on the gold plated components are really the only defects, any idea as to its value - though I really would have to be starving to part with Dad's beautiful gift. Obviously, he will not be giving me any more any time soon. Getting there though. It still plays and sounds as good as new - maybe even better with age. I usually prefer the action, sound and general feel of well preserved old vintage guitars of all ilk.

I did manage to afford a few setups for it but have never had it or myself Pleked. By the way, "Pleked" is not a euphemism for any other verb any of you will no doubt imply. And speaking of age, did that serial number (24416-5 or 24416-S) tell you the specific year of manufacture. I have always figured it was 1964 or 1965 but I bow humbly to your obvious expertise.

For all your kind assistance, araT, I bestow upon you alone, these next four Duobird photos including one more showing another coveted glimpse of my weak, scrawny, girly-esque digits. More completely irrelevant drawings are also available. To the rest of you, overt your eyes. No peaking.This uploading is really adicting. Either that or I am starved for entertainment as well. Then again, I am quite easily amused.

Enjoy and many thanks again, araT. And much success in your finest of professions - aid and comfort to aged guitars. Makes me wish I was one. Well, I am half of that description.

Danny

Thanks so much for the kind words & wonderful pics Danny! it really is a gorgeous Jet! :D

I wish I lived closer to Chigago, too, I'd love to give that baby a good setup! I wish there was something I could do about the binding but as you've said, I've heard the only options are replacing it or leaving it be.

I think Plekking is definitely worth it, though I've never bothered doing it myself as I'm handy with a levelling block & fret crowning file ;) It's not that much cheaper up here in it's home country, so don't be too disheartened by the costs.

As for it's value, I'm not great with values, it varies depending on the demand & the availability, I've seen them sell as low as $2000, but I've seen them go over $4000 in good condition.. the best thing to do is run an eBay completed listing search.

The serial number tells me (though I'm no pro) that it's made in Feb 1964, (the first digit being the month (or 2 digits for oct-dec), the next digit being the last number of the year (1964 to 1972: 4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2), the last numbers are thought to be the total number of guitars made that year. I think you'd better ask Wayne Gretschzky as he could probably shed more light on this - he is our in-house serial expert!

I look forward to seeing you around the place, don't be a stranger! :)

I believe that system of dating you are talking about didn't kick in until 1966 or so. But I don't know what the deal is with the jets of that era.

Danny, just to add a few more things to what's already been near beaten to death: if that guitar were a firebird, it would not have a gold pickguard or pickup rings. They would be black. Gretsch, like most alll places once upon a time, had a fine sense of aesthetics very much lost in this day and age.

Second, someone said that the greatest era of Gretsch jets is the 50s. That may be objectively the case, but let's not forget that when your guitar was made George Harrison at that very time was buying Country Gentleman and Tennesseans off the shelf and look at the result.

On a more personal level, my 65 6120 is the finest playing guitar I own, and I own my share of 50s Gretsches.

Some people simply don't like the double cut and that's fine, choice is choice (I like them). Ditto that some people prefer deArmond pickups to filtertrons. But those preferences aside, I'd say *objectively* the only real faults someone can lay on your guitar and those like it are (1) the susciptibility to binding rot--which all 60s (and some 50s) guitars are at risk of and (2) The burns vibrato. Why they would favor that over a bigsby boggles the mind.

But at the end of the day those things are small potatoes--what can compare to a guitar given by someone's father? I'd certainly play your guitar often if I had it.

So did you stick with law or go into art? I see your work at (f)Law school, was done right before finals would have started so can't fault your state of mind there. In my own case, though, there was nothing left in the bottle on the table.

I believe that system of dating you are talking about didn't kick in until 1966 or so. But I don't know what the deal is with the jets of that era.

Some places say 66, some say 64, I've never found a definitive answer on that... This serial # seems to match the system used through the late 60s, though. I think the only man that can really answer for certain is Wayne Gretschzky.

All my hollowbodies (not jets, I have none) from all over the 60s are pretty consistent and stick to the sequence and are part of known (to Wayne at least) batches of the same models. I have no idea what the deal was on jets of the 60s, but I've never seen the date based serial number before 66.

You may well be right, you definitely seem to have more experience with them than I do. I'm no serial expert when it comes to those vintage beasts!

I believe that system of dating you are talking about didn't kick in until 1966 or so. But I don't know what the deal is with the jets of that era.

Danny, just to add a few more things to what's already been near beaten to death: if that guitar were a firebird, it would not have a gold pickguard or pickup rings. They would be black. Gretsch, like most alll places once upon a time, had a fine sense of aesthetics very much lost in this day and age.

Second, someone said that the greatest era of Gretsch jets is the 50s. That may be objectively the case, but let's not forget that when your guitar was made George Harrison at that very time was buying Country Gentleman and Tennesseans off the shelf and look at the result.

On a more personal level, my 65 6120 is the finest playing guitar I own, and I own my share of 50s Gretsches.

Some people simply don't like the double cut and that's fine, choice is choice (I like them). Ditto that some people prefer deArmond pickups to filtertrons. But those preferences aside, I'd say *objectively* the only real faults someone can lay on your guitar and those like it are (1) the susciptibility to binding rot--which all 60s (and some 50s) guitars are at risk of and (2) The burns vibrato. Why they would favor that over a bigsby boggles the mind.

But at the end of the day those things are small potatoes--what can compare to a guitar given by someone's father? I'd certainly play your guitar often if I had it.

So did you stick with law or go into art? I see your work at (f)Law school, was done right before finals would have started so can't fault your state of mind there. In my own case, though, there was nothing left in the bottle on the table.
It's more like the law stuck to me - kind of like some annoying revolting infection that you can’t get rid of despite every anti-fungal agent you try. It keeps rearing its ugly head and follows you wherever you go like some unswattable knat - a vile and loathsome beast that you become dependent upon for food and shelter even though you detest it from the very depths of your being and you wish you could wrest your soul from the cold clammy grip of its hideous talons.

In other words, there wasn't exactly a torrent of interest in that alleged "art."

To feel the way you do about my practice I'd have to be a plaintiff's attorney who has to make political contributions to Democrats to keep the practice from being wiped out as it should be by instituting what every other jurisdiction on Earth has--loser pays.

A job at Wal-Mart is an anti-fungal agent at some level if it's *that* bad.

Whatever the case, you need to play that jet more. A lot more!

To feel the way you do about my practice I'd have to be a plaintiff's attorney who has to make political contributions to Democrats to keep the practice from being wiped out as it should be by instituting what every other jurisdiction on Earth has--loser pays.

A job at Wal-Mart is an anti-fungal agent at some level if it's *that* bad.

Whatever the case, you need to play that jet more. A lot more!
The Law On A Good Day

http://i42.tinypic.com/30a57yw.jpg

Oops, but I could do law school standing on my head

http://i42.tinypic.com/m9u8ug.jpg

I believe that system of dating you are talking about didn't kick in until 1966 or so. But I don't know what the deal is with the jets of that era.

Danny, just to add a few more things to what's already been near beaten to death: if that guitar were a firebird, it would not have a gold pickguard or pickup rings. They would be black. Gretsch, like most alll places once upon a time, had a fine sense of aesthetics very much lost in this day and age.

Second, someone said that the greatest era of Gretsch jets is the 50s. That may be objectively the case, but let's not forget that when your guitar was made George Harrison at that very time was buying Country Gentleman and Tennesseans off the shelf and look at the result.

On a more personal level, my 65 6120 is the finest playing guitar I own, and I own my share of 50s Gretsches.

Some people simply don't like the double cut and that's fine, choice is choice (I like them). Ditto that some people prefer deArmond pickups to filtertrons. But those preferences aside, I'd say *objectively* the only real faults someone can lay on your guitar and those like it are (1) the susciptibility to binding rot--which all 60s (and some 50s) guitars are at risk of and (2) The burns vibrato. Why they would favor that over a bigsby boggles the mind.

But at the end of the day those things are small potatoes--what can compare to a guitar given by someone's father? I'd certainly play your guitar often if I had it.

So did you stick with law or go into art? I see your work at (f)Law school, was done right before finals would have started so can't fault your state of mind there. In my own case, though, there was nothing left in the bottle on the table.
It's more like the law stuck to me - kind of like some annoying revolting infection that you can’t get rid of despite every anti-fungal agent you try. It keeps rearing its ugly head and follows you wherever you go like some unswattable knat - a vile and loathsome beast that you become dependent upon for food and shelter even though you detest it from the very depths of your being and you wish you could wrest your soul from the cold clammy grip of its hideous talons.

In other words, there wasn't exactly a torrent of interest in that alleged "art."