Yes, I WAS WRONG!
The pictures don't lie:

DeArmond 2k & 2000 ARE NOT THE SAME PICKUPS!

The long story - short:

rcboals was looking for the new/modern DeArmonds 2000 for his G3155.
Then I joined the thread arguing with the guys about 2k/2000 stuff.

Lizardkinged and tartanphantom tried to convince me that DeArmonds 2k and 2000 are different pickups, but I refused to believe they were, before I have seen the differences/similarities with my own eyes.
I know I can be difficult sometimes... Sorry about that, guys!

So, rcboals took apart one of his DeArmond 2000 he accidentaly damaged and sent me the pics og the pickup's parts and description of where the magnets were. Thank you rcboals!

I borrowed the the pics of 2k taken apart from CurtisNovak's site...

Finaly, here's the proof that:
1. I WAS WRONG!!!

2. The 2000 and 2k ARE DIFFERENT PICKUPS!!!

No more confusion about which is which!

Cheers
Darko

In detail:

In detail:

rcboals DeArmond 2000 in detail:

rcboals DeArmond 2000 in detail:

Gee, I could have told you that. :D

This is fascinating stuff!

They sound quite different too, apparently. There is an A/B comparison on the alternative Gretsch Forum site......somewhere.

I've never tried 2k's. I love my 2000's

Mr Marlin

Great pictures, I love this sort of thing, it's the first time I've seen inside either of these pickups. I have a couple of guitars with 2k pickups and one with 2000s'. Although the 2000s' with their slug magnets seem closer to the original Dynasonics in construction I prefer the sound of my 2k pickups.

i knew they were different too - but nice to see the internals
looking at those pics I reckon a 2k would have a p90 feel

- and i've always thought what bad branding/marketing it was - calling 2 different pups 2000 and 2k - ridiculous !!

I was tellin' ya man, and not as an I told ya so, but you gotta watch out. I was only going on and on about the difference because of the people who might be confused otherwise thinking they were the same. As you now know they aren't. but right on. Pretty neat eh?

and yeah. the 2k's are essentially a P-90 that doesn't capture all the nuances. and the 2000 is essentially a Dynasonic that doesn't capture all the nuances. lol Both are great. I love my 2000's, but always found the 2k's far too bright, or even shrill. (my 2000's are almost too bright some days, before i put my sunglasses on ;) )

So which ones came in which guitars? Is one model worth more than the other?

Gee, I could have told you that. :D

No, you coudln't have told him that Sarah . Others tried to tell him that :D this is why he posting the I was wroing thread.:o

Wait, wait ... someone was WRONG on the Internet. I mean, I've heard about it, but...

it is the 2000s thats in the older electromatic series isnt it?

i must say (even thoug most of u know) that the gretsch dynasonic is
awesome compared to the 2000s in the electros...

So which ones came in which guitars? Is one model worth more than the other?

My 2ks' are in a Dearmond 77t and Starfire Special, the 2000s'are in my Electromatic 5129.

My 2ks' are in a Dearmond 77t and Starfire Special, the 2000s'are in my Electromatic 5129.

You are correct Gretsch never had 2K's only DeArmond Guitars. Also the 2K have the deArmond Logo on the small side of the cover the new Gretsch 2000's don't have a logo on the cover. I'm hoping the 2k's I just got are p90ish for my G3155 I loves me a P90.

If it took you being wrong to get awesome guts shots of both pickups I'm GLAD you were wrong :D ..nothing I like more than guts shots!

If it took you being wrong to get awesome guts shots of both pickups I'm GLAD you were wrong :D ..nothing I like more than guts shots!

rc took shots of 2000 and emailed them to me. 2k shots were borrowed from Chris Novac's 'pickups repair' site.

I have a great respect for tartan, lizard, Sarah, rc and all of you people who know Gretsch far better then I do, but 'I told you so' is not always enough.
There was too much confusion arround those pickups: old 2000, Dynasonic, new, modern, 2k, not 2k, DeArmond 200 (you'll find lot of this too), black top, white top, Gretsch, FMIC, hot, not hot, P90...I don't know.

I know now.

And I will compare the 2000 and the 2k pickup using them in the same guitar, thru the same signal chain, just to see how different they sound, if so... :D

Cheers
Darko

I look forward to hearing back on that comparison Darko, I'm curious myself..

Hei, 6sting! Det er kult, bror! Nå er du offisielt medlem av "DeArmond Innsidere Club"!
;)

Hei, 6sting! Det er kult, bror! Nå er du offisielt medlem av "DeArmond Innsidere Club"!
;)

Tusen hjertelig takk tartanbror! Dette er enda et bevis på at GT er et kjempekult selskap!;)

At the Fender Forum, they had some posts about this way back when. Here is the story as told by Fender's Bill Turner:

This is from an old post from Bill Turner at Fender:

"Here`s the story.

The De Armond 2K and 2000 are wholly different animals. The 2K is configured like a P-90. Marketing wanted to create a jazz style pickup for the DeArmond guitars, and wanted to use the 2000 format. Personally, I would have liked to seen us release a RI 2000 to the market on a MIA guitar initially. This would have avoided some of the confusion that now exists between the models.

The De Armond guitar line took priority, and that meant that the 2K was developed first. There were no plans from marketing at the time to further develop the 2000.

As the 2k model began to come together, I and a good friend in R&D went ahead and designed parts for the 2000, and added these to the final set of drawings. Although there were no plans to use the parts that were designed for the 2000, they would be there when the time came.

The opportunity came last year when Gretsch approached Fender about using the 2K on thier guitars. Gretsch assumed that the pickup we were making for De Armond was a 2000 type model, and yes, it looks like one, but we knew that the 2K would not compliment the original Gretsch sound. This gave us the chance to to push for the production of the 2000 and deliver it to Gretsch in the original 2000 config. The distiguishing feature for the Gretsch`s is that the 2000 does not sport the De Armond logo.

As we began to produce the 2000, interest grew to include the Guild Custom Shop, The Fender Custom Shop, and Guild guitars. So far, the exposure for the 2000 has been limited, but we are trying to expand it`s role on the guitar.

As I said, the 2K is configured like a P-90.
The pole pieces and pole adjust screws are steel. The poles extend through the bobbin where they are trapped between a pair of like pole Alnico 5 bar magnets. The bobbin is surrounded by a thin steel U channel from below the bobbin to enhance the pickups inductance.

DC resistance: 7.4K
Inductance: 6 Henries
43 gage magnet wire

The sound is like a P-90, in that it is a very fat single coil, but not quite as heavy as a P-90.

The 2000 uses only 1/4 inch Alnico 5 pole pieces in the bobbin, the sound is bright with that great rockabilly snap.

DC resistance: 8.85K
Inductance: 3.55 Henries
44 gage magnet wire


Hope this does it.

Bill Turner"

it is the 2000s thats in the older electromatic series isnt it?

i must say (even thoug most of u know) that the gretsch dynasonic is
awesome compared to the 2000s in the electros...

That's simply a matter of taste. They're very similiar (dynas and 2000's), but just as the 2k is not quite a P-90 this is not quite a Dyna. And its not to say that they are lacking... Just different flavors.
Its kindof like the difference between Thai Curry, and Indian Curry, both delicious (be it your thing), but the texture is slightly different and has different garnishes/veggies.

In 6Stings defense how could they expect us not to get confused by 2K or 2000?
It's like saying NY and New York are not the same thing. One is a city and one is a state? Run like the wind and don't forget to wind your watch.

Haha, in his defense we all totally knew his confusion as we were there. And then people showed us the same or similar photos, we read the story, (I've taken some sets apart for other purposes) but we all have to find things out for ourselves sometimes. I figured this one didnt involve gasoline fireworks and a trip to the ER, so I rolled with it. haha

All this P-90 talk is making me miss my Duncan P-90's. (I have them in my electronics box still. nothing to put them in)

In 6Stings defense how could they expect us not to get confused by 2K or 2000?
It's like saying NY and New York are not the same thing. One is a city and one is a state? Run like the wind and don't forget to wind your watch.

Many have already been down the 2000/2k road. I think mister 6 was just saying he was having a little trouble believing their findings.
I know I had trouble with the similarities/differences but knowing as little as I did I was quick to accept another person's experience :)

I mean. I'm a computer guy so I know that 2k = 2000 except when it doesn't... this is how we learn :cool:

Many have already been down the 2000/2k road. I think mister 6 was just saying he was having a little trouble believing their findings.

You're right, Mr Woof!
Sorry, but it takes more then 'I'm telling you' to convince me.

And I still wonder when 'DeArmond 200' (two hundred) popped up and who started to call it Dynasonic??
And I still want to see the DeArmond 2000 (two thousand) that reads 8.50 kOhms or more...

Haha, in his defense we all totally knew his confusion as we were there. And then people showed us the same or similar photos, we read the story, (I've taken some sets apart for other purposes) but we all have to find things out for ourselves sometimes. I figured this one didnt involve gasoline fireworks and a trip to the ER, so I rolled with it. haha

Mr L, it would be interesting to know who you refer to as 'we/us' and 'people'...

And if you 'have taken some sets apart', where were the pics?

You know how it is: No pics - never happened!:D

Thanks for the clarification.It helps me too!

As one who has both a '54 Gretsch with Dynasonics (nominally the original DeArmond model 2000) and a DeArmond with DeArmond 2ks as well as a '49 dogear P90 equipped Gibson I can say this...the 2k sounds far closer to a Dynasonic than it does to a P90 irregardless of its construction. It has a similar volume output and tonal characteristics. I don't find it necessary to change the volume or tone settings on my amp when changing from my Gretsch to my DeArmond at the gig. Fender did a great job at mimicking the DeArmond 2000's sound when they designed the 2k.