So I am still trying to get used to using a Bigsby. I switched from a flat handle to a chet and removed the plastic washer to bring it closer to the strings. Now it's a bit too close. But I am also mystified about its responsiveness. When I move it anywhere as much as I see others doing it, it produces a cartoonish boiiiioiiiioiing effect. So I'm thinking of going to a 1" spring. But before I get one, here are a few questions maybe someone can help me answer.

I'm playing a 2008 T-Rose. Do all GreTscHes come with a stock 7/8"?

And if it really is a larger spring, does it have any other effect besides raising the handle?

And if not, what can I do to make it just a little less responsive?

Or is all of this just a technique thing (though it must certainly be in part)?

'I'd tell you about the Magic, and It would Free your Soul,
but it's like trying to tell a stranger about Rock'n'Roll.'
- The Lovin' Spoonful

My Setzer Model came with a One Incher.

Perhaps you could find a thinner 'washer,' if you think that would help.

Stingker

The larger spring will be a little stiffer and, therefore, a little less responsive. The larger spring will also cover more ground in some ways as it has further to go before being fully compressed. I suggest starting out light. Strum a chord and give a few flutters on the Bigsby. Think fading out chords; try it at the end of a song. Listen to some Neil Young tunes to get it. But generally a few well-timed wobbles on the end of any ringing chords will do the trick. Vibe/Trem is like any spice. You usually don't want to much. Just enough to know it's there.

Vibe/Trem is like any spice. You usually don't want to much. Just enough to know it's there.

My feeling exactly. It's just that the faintest of wiggles produces oingo boingo. It's like 3 grains of salt that make the dish inedible. Would the bigger spring help solve that?

I think so. It'll put the spring a little higher, but I did it to my 5120 and really like it. Now that you mentioned it, I think that's what isn't so great about the B-7 on my pro-jet. It's a little soft for my taste. You also want to be sure to let the spring come on up as soon as you can in a - dip and rise - sort of fashion.

here's a link to a track I did on my 5120 - it's pretty subtle stuff but may help. I'm only the guitar on this one. Lyrics volcals belong to bandleader. Nice enough tune though. Is there a way to embed these?

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_4109273

Whooh! - DevilYouKnow!

Hot Stuff!

Great Advice! - and Great Playing!

Thanks!

And Strummerson, Thanks for asking!

Tom - 'Stingker'

Thanks DYK. I'll check into what size spring I have. For $5-10 it certainly seems worth a shot. It just seems like I see folks really working them and they sound great.

Oh, and btw, that sounds GREAT! What amp do you play through?

I played that through my trusty 22 watt Mesa Boogie Studio .22+. A real versatile Amp that I bought years ago, used for a while and then back-burner-ed. Today, it's become my main amp for practicing/playing out.

Dive bombing on a rose, are you?

Dive bombing on a rose, are you?

Trying NOT to. When others use the bigsby right it sounds just beautiful. I trained on violin as a kid, so vibrato (which the bigsby actually is, technically, not tremolo, which is in and out not up and down) really appeals when applied right.

One little trick that lots of folks do is put a penny under the spring to give it just a little more height and resistance.

One little trick that lots of folks do is put a penny under the spring to give it just a little more height and resistance.

Make sure it's vintage and/or foreign or it'll suck tone!! :eek::cool:

As far as I know all the Gretsch proline models come with 1" springs. Only the Electromatics come with the 7/8" spring.

What gauge strings are you using? If they are too light it will enhance the effect of the vibrato. I use a hybrid 10/11 set and they seem to be fine, but regular 10s seemed too light on my hollowbodies.

One thing you could try is loosening the nut that holds the handle on (not sure if the Chet handles have this) that's inside the big spring. That gives you more play in the handle, taking some of the action out of the Bigsby. Personally I tighten that as much as possible because I can't seem to get enough vibrato, but that might be a solution for you.

As far as I know all the Gretsch proline models come with 1" springs. Only the Electromatics come with the 7/8" spring.

I'm pretty certain both my (FMIC era - pro line) Jets came with 7/8s..

As far as I know all the Gretsch proline models come with 1" springs. Only the Electromatics come with the 7/8" spring.

What gauge strings are you using? If they are too light it will enhance the effect of the vibrato. I use a hybrid 10/11 set and they seem to be fine, but regular 10s seemed too light on my hollowbodies.

One thing you could try is loosening the nut that holds the handle on (not sure if the Chet handles have this) that's inside the big spring. That gives you more play in the handle, taking some of the action out of the Bigsby. Personally I tighten that as much as possible because I can't seem to get enough vibrato, but that might be a solution for you.

Thanks for these suggestions. I've got 11s on with a wound G. But next string change, I'm going to 12s with a plain, I think I'll splurge on BeBops and a setup to fine tune the action a bit. I'll check loosening the handle at that point. That really could be the solution. Coin in for height, loosen for more play, and practice practice practice.

Here's a vid of fellow G-T Member, 'Jack Knife,' doing a nice number where he displays some skillful GreTscHing, with some skillful vibrato action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4eF3aH6blk&feature=player_embedded#!

Tom - 'Stingker'

Make sure it's vintage and/or foreign or it'll suck tone!! :eek::cool:

A Danish Crown coin will work very well too. :)

http://www.gretsch-talk.com/forum/members/michiel-albums-my-gretsch-5129-ruby-picture3681-danish-crown-fits-perfectly.jpg

I actually prefer the smaller spring although it did take me a while to learn how to use it without the "oingo boingo"; you have to be really light with it and know when to stop before it jumps.

The bigger spring (or added coin) does give you more response, but the height of the handle with the 7/8" spring is perfect for my hand.

Now i'm not sure about my setup after reading this.... i guess i'll go with the if it ain't broke don't fix it

What we have here is a failure to Oingo Boingo properly. Just for giggles why not add something to the arm to make it longer. After all the arm is just a lever. If you want the other end to move less make a longer arm. So find that old Popsicle stick and tape it on there and see if a longer arm would work for you.

If that solves your problem you could get a Merle Travis style arm.

Also watch Jeff Beck use his tremolo on his Strat. He just barely touches the tremolo bar with a couple of fingertips most of the time. Nothing about his set up that has anything to do with Bigsby or Gretsch but it might be that where one guy is slamming the bar around like someone with a Hurst 4 in the floor shifter, and another guy is just barely moving the lever. Different results for sure.

Just a thought

Big Ron

What we have here is a failure to Oingo Boingo properly. Just for giggles why not add something to the arm to make it longer. After all the arm is just a lever. If you want the other end to move less make a longer arm. So find that old Popsicle stick and tape it on there and see if a longer arm would work for you.

If that solves your problem you could get a Merle Travis style arm.

Also watch Jeff Beck use his tremolo on his Strat. He just barely touches the tremolo bar with a couple of fingertips most of the time. Nothing about his set up that has anything to do with Bigsby or Gretsch but it might be that where one guy is slamming the bar around like someone with a Hurst 4 in the floor shifter, and another guy is just barely moving the lever. Different results for sure.

Just a thought

Big Ron

Yeah, but my question arose from watching how others use theirs. If I move half as much as it seems others do, what results crosses the line from music to old radio sound effect.

I suggest reading: 'The Three Pillars of Zen,' - by Philip Kapleau. :cool:

Excerpt:
- Student: - 'While listening to sounds I have been asking, "Who is listening?" Is this wrong?'
- Roshi: - 'I see your problem. In asking, "Who is listening?" you are at first conscious of the question as well as the sound. When the questioning penetrates deeper, you cease to be aware of it. So when a bell rings it is only the bell listening to the sound of the bell. Or to put it another way, it is the sound of yourself ringing. This is the moment of enlightenment.'

"Do you believe in Magic of a young Girl's Heart?
And the Music can Free Her whenever It starts, ..."

I actually prefer the smaller spring although it did take me a while to learn how to use it without the "oingo boingo"; you have to be really light with it and know when to stop before it jumps.

The bigger spring (or added coin) does give you more response, but the height of the handle with the 7/8" spring is perfect for my hand.

This is my experience too. Just feels better to me with a 7/8s spring and no penny. Just treat it like your girl and be gentle, and, she'll take care of you.

On my ProJet, I tightened the hell out of the nuts on my Bigsby handle and applied some blue Loc-Tite. I added a penny to it also.

It is now hard to move, which is how I like it.

I suggest reading: 'The Three Pillars of Zen,' - by Philip Kapleau. :cool:

Excerpt:
- Student: - 'While listening to sounds I have been asking, "Who is listening?" Is this wrong?'
- Roshi: - 'I see your problem. In asking, "Who is listening?" you are at first conscious of the question as well as the sound. When the questioning penetrates deeper, you cease to be aware of it. So when a bell rings it is only the bell listening to the sound of the bell. Or to put it another way, it is the sound of yourself ringing. This is the moment of enlightenment.'

"Do you believe in Magic of a young Girl's Heart?
And the Music can Free Her whenever It starts, ..."

Please don't clutter this thread with completely unrelated gobbledegook.

'Strummerson,' Just because you don't understand it, does not mean it's unrelated or gobbledegook. I don't doubt that there are plenty of GreTscH players, for example, that often feel quite 'One' with their Instrument, but especially with their Music, that comes through their Instrument, 'Somehow.' My excerpt, above, touches on that. Of course, the excerpt was taken 'out of context,' in that one would really have to understand the book in order to understand the excerpt. But I don't doubt that anyone who had some grasp of the book, 'The Three Pillars of Zen,' would find a marked improvement in their Guitar Playing (or Drumming, or Vibrato-ing, or Bell Ringing, etc.). See also: 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance,' by Robert Pirsig, - and 'Zen in the Art of Archery,' by Eugen Herrigel.

Some Qualified Person should write the book: 'Zen in the Art of Guitar Playing.'
I think the bottom line message of the book would be, basically: 'Pay ATTENTION to your Equipment, to what you're Hearing, and to what you are Doing.' To quote another line from, 'The Three Pillars ...,' 'Attention means Attention.'

You've heard of Johnny B Goode, for example, who could play a Guitar,
just like ringing a Bell.

. . 10988

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - w.s.

I meant well. Perhaps someday you'll see that. :cool:

(Ooops. :o)

PEACE! - EVERYBODY!

Just because you don't understand it, does not mean it's unrelated or gobbledegook. I don't doubt that there are plenty of GreTscH players, for example, that often feel quite 'One' with their Instrument, but especially with their Music, that came through their Instrument, 'Somehow.' My excerpt, above, touches on that.

You've heard of Johnny B. Goode, for example, who could play a Guitar, just like ringing a Bell.

10988

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - w.s.

I meant well. Perhaps someday you'll see that. :cool:

No. You didn't mean well. You purposely interjected into this thread with self-aggrandizing reading recommendations, to set yourself up as "deep," recommendations that have nothing to do (except in your wandering pseudo-philosophical mind) with adjusting and operating a bigsby. I know you are very proud of your esotericism, but I think you should look for personal validation elsewhere.

You've done this in threads responding to other people's concerns. If they don't mind it, it's up to them. But I think it's pretentious and obnoxious and you know that is exactly how I feel.

So why don't you read the Babylonian Talmud and get back to me on its ethical insights, or at least Tractates Baba Metzia, Sanhedrin, and Menahot. I also recommend you acquaint yourself with Isocrates's rhetorical theory and Plato's The Sophists. Then get back to me.:cool:

Now, if you have anything to share that has clear bearing on bigsby adjustment and operation, I will be grateful for your input.

Thanks,

'Strum';)

Dear Strummerson, I disagree with your assessment. I think you misunderstand me greatly (hhhhmmmm, like: completely!). But I have no wish nor need to bicker if no friendly understanding results. :(

But at least I Know that anyone who Understands the Validity of Zen, Understands the Validity of my comments (and the books I recommend). And my suggestions are not, of course, made just for you, 'Strum,' but for All. And they ARE in Good Faith. :cool:

Perhaps you take my LightHeartedness as sarcasm. - It isn't. - It's just LightHeartedness! :p

I'm not concerned with 'proving myself' to you, nor to anyone (except the Creator), but one 'possibility' you haven't recognized yet is that I am just plain old Sincere!
Just as it is that many people often 'see' in others what is Really True to themselves, I'm convinced your assessment of me fits yourself far better than it fits me. For example, I do not 'feel' the obnoxious pretentiousness you admitted you 'feel.' What you 'feel' is from your self, NO ONE ELSE! - I feel Fine!

I suggest you 'Lighten Up!!!' - Let it go! - And breathe easy! (Yoga might help.)

Thank you very much for bringing up this Vibrato Thread! - Our G-T Team has been quite helpful, as usual, with useful, Experience-Based info. - It's very much appreciated!

Take it Easy. :) Have a Great Day!

Make sure it's vintage and/or foreign or it'll suck tone!!

Tara, just wait until you have only unauthentic €-coins in your purse... the 10 cent coin works with all Bigsbys!:D:D:D

OK, so here's another Two Cents Worth:

When I was a teenager, my younger sister, who had been taking Piano lessons for quite some time, asked me to Please listen to her play, and to tell her what I thought about it.

She played her most intricate and developed song that she was capable of, and it seemed to me to be just about 'perfect,' in that all the notes were played 'in time,' and with proper emphasis.

But it seemed empty. Something was lacking.

I suggested that as she Play, she should try to IMAGINE how she would like it to Sound, and to try to Play it like That.

She informed me that that was exactly what our older brother had suggested to her also!

But she informed me that she did not know what we meant by that!! It seemed odd to me that she did not Know what we meant, but with whatever I told her, she failed to acknowledge that she understood my meaning. Not surprisingly, not long after that, she abandoned her Piano lessons.

But it seems to me, that that Element, of Imagining just what it is we REALLY WANT TO HEAR in our Guitar Playing, and then to do our best to Play It like THAT, is an Essential Element in becoming accomplished Musicians.

Well, Really it is The Essential Element!

(I know it seems 'Obvious,' but sometimes the obvious needs to be expressed also. :o)

Thanks,

Tom - 'Stingker'

Yes. Good point. I really need to work on both having a clear idea of the sound I want and listening to the sound I am producing. Mostly, I tend to imagine sounding like a generic power tool when I play and as I play I listen for the dryer to buzz. That must be it.